Self Looped Cap Dump Bedini Motor

[joellagace]

LOL  TL/DR

"inductive kickback" is another common name for Back EMF, especially in the context of electrical circuits and systems.

When a current flowing through an inductive coil is suddenly interrupted, the magnetic field collapses, and the energy has to go somewhere. This can result in a sudden voltage spike or "kickback" across the coil. It's a manifestation of the principles underlying electromotive forces and provides a fascinating avenue for exploration.

"Back EMF" often describes a continuous phenomenon where the induced electromotive force opposes the direction of the applied voltage, such as in the operation of a motor.

"Inductive kickback," on the other hand, tends to describe a more sudden and transient phenomenon, like a spike in voltage when the current in an inductive circuit is abruptly interrupted.

These subtle differences in context can lead to the preference of one term over the other in specific situations.

[tinman]

LOL  TL/DR

"inductive kickback" is another common name for Back EMF, especially in the context of electrical circuits and systems.

When a current flowing through an inductive coil is suddenly interrupted, the magnetic field collapses, and the energy has to go somewhere. This can result in a sudden voltage spike or "kickback" across the coil. It's a manifestation of the principles underlying electromotive forces and provides a fascinating avenue for exploration.



"Inductive kickback," on the other hand, tends to describe a more sudden and transient phenomenon, like a spike in voltage when the current in an inductive circuit is abruptly interrupted.

These subtle differences in context can lead to the preference of one term over the other in specific situations.

"inductive kickback" is another common name for Back EMF, especially in the context of electrical circuits and systems.

Only in fantasy land.
To quote EE-->A back e.m.f.(also called a Counter e.m.f.) is an e.m.f. created across an inductor by the changing magnetic flux around the conductor, produced by a change in current in the inductor.

"Back EMF" often describes a continuous phenomenon where the induced electromotive force opposes the direction of the applied voltage, such as in the operation of a motor.

Voltage has no direction. It is a potential across a circuit.
The Back EMF will produce a voltage across the inductor that is the same polarity as the source.
Current has a direction of flow. Back EMF applies to any inductor that has a voltage dropped across it.

When a voltage is dropped across an inductor, you get a Back EMF produced by the inductor of the same voltage polarity as the source voltage, which is why the value of current flow starts from 0, and increases over time as the magnetic field reaches it's peak.
When the source is disconnected from the inductor, you get inductive kickback, which has no Back EMF, which is why the current flow from the inductive kickback starts high, and decreases over time to 0.
There is no Back EMF produced during the inductive kickback part of the cycle, as the inductor is now the source, and not the sink.

In the (The secrets of Back EMF) thread, you stated in reply 24-->(When the current is turned off, the magnetic field collapses, which generates a voltage spike known as a back electromotive force (EMF) in the opposite direction of the original current)
Not that it makes much sense,( EMF in the opposite direction of the original current) but the current is not flowing in the opposite direction during the inductive kickback part of the cycle. The current will remain flowing in the same direction throughout the whole cycle. And the inductive kickback has no back EMF, as it is now the source of current.

I too use to call it Back EMF when i first started playing around with these pulsed systems 20 odd years ago.
But i soon learned the difference between Back EMF and inductive kickback.

[norman6538]

Tinman I partially understand this
"
When a voltage is dropped across an inductor, you get a Back EMF produced by the inductor of the same voltage polarity as the source voltage, which is why the value of current flow starts from 0, and increases over time as the magnetic field reaches it's peak.
When the source is disconnected from the inductor, you get inductive kickback, which has no Back EMF, which is why the current flow from the inductive kickback starts high, and decreases over time to 0.
There is no Back EMF produced during the inductive kickback part of the cycle, as the inductor is now the source, and not the sink."

but as in the auto coil the collapsing magnetic field creates a charge that is then
pushed into the capacitor across the points and then that charge again goes back into the coil making that same magnetic field  and collapses repeating this process till it weakens to nothing.

And since the back emf or whatever is greater than the 12v supplied the fist time we have a cascading up voltage the makes an even greater HV.

So I assume there is some current going back into the coil from the capacitor.
Am I wrong?
Norman

[tinman]

Tinman I partially understand this
"
When a voltage is dropped across an inductor, you get a Back EMF produced by the inductor of the same voltage polarity as the source voltage, which is why the value of current flow starts from 0, and increases over time as the magnetic field reaches it's peak.
When the source is disconnected from the inductor, you get inductive kickback, which has no Back EMF, which is why the current flow from the inductive kickback starts high, and decreases over time to 0.
There is no Back EMF produced during the inductive kickback part of the cycle, as the inductor is now the source, and not the sink."

but as in the auto coil the collapsing magnetic field creates a charge that is then
pushed into the capacitor across the points and then that charge again goes back into the coil making that same magnetic field  and collapses repeating this process till it weakens to nothing.

And since the back emf or whatever is greater than the 12v supplied the fist time we have a cascading up voltage the makes an even greater HV.

So I assume there is some current going back into the coil from the capacitor.
Am I wrong?
Norman

In the case of the condenser in a points ignition system, the magnetic field in the coil collapses when the points are open, not closed.
Once the points are open, current can oscillate between the coil and condenser. But once the condenser starts sending current back into the coil, it has then become the source-like the battery, and so the coil will produce some Back EMF during this part of the cycle. But during the coils kickback cycle, no Back EMF is produced by the coil, as it is now the source of current flow.

It is easy to remember
1- if the inductor is the sink of current flow, and the magnetic field is still changing in time, then you get a Back EMF
2- if the inductor is the source of current flow, then there is no Back EMF produced in the inductor.

[Cloxxki]

I'm far from a Bedini expert to ask this, but does anyone ever run such circuits from capacitors? Just to make sure you're not sucking chemical cycle life from the battery. Any other reason Bedini trickery wouldn't "start" let alone "loop" from capacitors?