Is this the first selfrunning overunity motor w/o batteries ? Mike?s motor

[Peterae]

Hi Dave
I also use rapid and find them very good, but they did not do the hall sensors and didnt have the guage wire i needed.
They also dont have a min order but charge about ?5.00 for handling and postage on small orders.

Peter

[dingbat]

Hi Darren,

I know you love your SIMs!  What are you hoping to find in your SIM?  Just replicate the wave form using a virtual circuit or hope the virtual circuit will run itself!

Don't take that the wrong way either...


Dave.

I know you didn't ask me, but I think the simulation is very useful in helping weed out things that are not likely to work.

Obviously, if the simulation software is "by the book", we are not going to find evidence that a given system will self run.  But, it can certainly keep us on paths that are likely to give similar results to Mike's, if indeed Mikes video was not faked.

I think it is also useful for showing that most of what is going on is not magic, and can likely be explained "conventionally".  If Mike's motor was real, then obviously something beyond our "conventional" wisdom is going on.  This doesn't mean that conventional wisdom will completely go away.  I want to know in the end how much of a departure Mikes motor was from conventional analysis (if any).  In other words, the simulation shows this will happen, but this is what really happened - the difference is what we have to explain in the end.

One thing that the simulation cannot predict (at least in it's current form) is the effect of the moving magnets.  Darren has simulated the system as a transformer being driven by a primary.  This will closely approximate what is going on, but it is not identical to rotating magnets to induce the windings.

I think that if Mikes motor is not a fake, the "trick" will be in some quirk in what is going on with the permanent magnet fields intersecting the coils, etc.  Some little crack in lenz's law or something.  Therefore I don't expect the simulation to predict overunity, because the rotating magnets are not actually simulated, and even if they were, a conventional simulation better not predict overunity.

[CTG Labs]

Hi Dingbat, I see what you are saying.

I guess it depends what you are working on.  If using batterys with either the mono-pole or the window motor, there is no excess energy in the motor.  The effect takes place in the battery, so no sims will work.

We cannot see OU in a sim in any form, positive or negative, so in my view its very limited in its usefulness.  Sure, you can use it to design switching controllers for your motor, but trying to anaylse where the energy maybe coming from in a SIM is just plain useless and I am not sure what can come of it.

On the other hand, at least you can see that the wave form is normal because it shows up in the SIM as Darren has shown.  Its only missing the curve because there are no inductions from the magnets!

But that tells you what some people have always said, that you cannot see Negative energy on a scope!  If the same wave form appears in a SIM then the answer is not in the scopes shots from Mike.  What I mean is, yes, the scope shot shows the switching, etc, but it doesnt show Negative energy.  You cant measure it, only see its effects.

If we are talking batterys, then we already know why it works.  The fast almost currentless higher voltage spikes applied to the battery.  John has told the answer many times.


Regards,

Dave.

[z_p_e]

Hi Darren,

I know you love your SIMs!  What are you hoping to find in your SIM?  Just replicate the wave form using a virtual circuit or hope the virtual circuit will run itself!

Don't take that the wrong way either...


Dave.

Dave,

Pretty much most of what DB said.

For me it is pretty much the best way to initially get inside a circuit and explore any aspect of what is happening there. The ideal scenario is to have both the real motor built, and the model using simulation. I'd probably be a lot farther along by now if I had the motor sitting on my bench so I can bounce back and forth.

My preference is as DB said, to find out everything possible using the model before I go to build. I can do this 10 times faster with the model than anyone can do with their real motor. Further, there is virtually no limit to what can be "probed" in the model, whereas one would be very hard pressed to examine some of the points in the circuit that I am....and all simultaneously if I wish, with no limit to the number of channels.

Bottom line?... I wanted to learn about the somewhat complex interactions going on, and just to see if I could do it....an exercise in modeling if you like. I think I have accomplished my goal. If I find something odd, then that's bonus.

I don't expect to find the overunity mechanism if it in fact does exist, but I'm not ruling it out either.

Regards,
Darren

PS. I know there are few fans of what I am doing with modeling this motor. Doesn't bother me though

[CTG Labs]

Hi Darren,

Your points are taken.  I use SIMs myself for certain things.  I guess I just prefer to work with my hands and I think that in this field, there is only one answer, and thats to build and experiment with real devices.

However I do find your posts informative.  But if you sim cannot add in the effects of the magnets spinning then I guess what you can do in the SIM is limited.  Will you be building a test model to go along side your SIM work?


Dave.