Is this the first selfrunning overunity motor w/o batteries ? Mike?s motor

[pese]

@all

some help to semiconductors.
in bedinis circuit are the mps8099 8599
it do not neet this special type number.

this is nothing else ordinaery chip inside
als following us or european type numbers.

(i selled over years transistor-chips to
transistor manufacturers - so i have the knowledge)

(give attention that this ony an 500mA device that
(possibly can replaced with 1Amp devices.)

Origine devices are :
US types   2N als EN MPS   2907(A) PNP   also 2905
                                     2222(A) NPN   also 2219

Euopean       BC327  PNP
                  BC337  NPN

If some ask over semiconductors ,pls use my e-mail

[DMBoss]

Hey All.
I think that everyone should be focusing on getting replication information from Mike instead of asking him to do this and that test. More people need to replicate and then the questions can be divided among the working replications. As it is now poor Mike is going to have his head spinning from trying to do all the request tests. It appears now there are several people going their own way for replication without trying to duplicate exactly what Mike has done before changing the mix. This is doomed to failure. Mike appears to have a working unit so that is the best starting point instead of everyone thinking that they 'know' how it works.
..soap box on...
First there needs to be one or two moderators of a sticky post that contains exact replication information and these moderators should be the ones that can only update the post with current information. Already I see half a dozen circuit diagrams with conflicting information being posted. Which one is correct. We need a common depository of information such as wire gauge, winding resistance, size of form, magnets used, parts used, etc.... without having to read through hundreds of posts some of which are conflicting. This will also reduce the stress on Mike as everyone is asking the same questions every twenty posts. First Mikes states the resistance is 40 ohms and then it is 46 ohms of the windings. Some people think that this is trival but this can make a very big difference as it pertains to the length of wire used and the number of windings Mike put on the motor since he did not count the number of turns. At the current direction we will not have one working replication and people will be pissed at Mike when they should be pissed at themselves for not performing an exact replication. Please.. someone get this organized...
... soapbox off...

Hello:

new to this forum.  Have working O/U pulse motors on the bench... BUT don't ask for details as the work is proprietary!  Hydrocontrol above is correct, you are not asking the right questions, and not paying enough attention to the exact details of Mike's work.

A few turns the wrong way, wrong size, barium vs strontium ferrite magnets, and exact timing - any one of these parameters wrong by a small amount and your version will either not work, or work too poorly to overcome friction!

I have precise optical encoder/computer based feedback/control of Fire and Duty cycle timing of the pulses which I can change on the fly.  Resolved to 1/2 degree of mechanical motion of the rotor. You can only get a gain within a very narrow regime of timing of the FIRE [on] and DUTY[span before off] settings - IF you have everything else right.  i.e. geometry, materials, coil, core of coils etc.

Also it appears Mike has this wired inadvertently backwards based on the original scope traces.  It is not wired to be a "motor" based on the main coil trace.  The ON condition voltage should be the sum of the capacitor or battery voltage, plus the intrinsic Counter EMF being produced by the main coil as rotor turns!!!

The fact his trace shows the ON time at near zero volts, says the main coil is wired as a generator! (and applying an outside voltage to the generator mode, will then cancel the Counter EMF so to speak, and draw all the capacitor's charge out as a high current, dropping the voltage to near zero)

The exact size and radius and spacing of the magnets along with the exact material of the magnets is ultra important.  Also Bedini's drawing shows a hexagonal steel core inside the rotor magnets for flux return path, and this will interact with the coils aside from magnets too.  Has Mike used a steel core or air core for the rotor magnets?

I have a pulse motor version which can interchange coils of different wire size and turns counts.  one coil produces 105% gain and another 135% gain all things equal.  Also the "best" coil and core, and altering the magnets from 20mm dia x 40 mm long, to 25mm dia x 6 mm long alters the gain significantly too.  These changes aside from a very exact and narrow window of timing settings being required!

Ask the right questions or you will NEVER replicate this machine!  I would like to replicate it, but with a fully equipped CNC machine shop and extensive electronics and instrumentation - I am unable to even start without more detail.  Stabbing in the dark could take years and hundreds of trial and error steps.

Mike is getting in the range of 200% to 300% gain else it could not self run.  Something in his details is completely different than a "normal" pulse motor set up, as the best I have gotten so far is ~135% gain.

Cheers.

[hartiberlin]

Hi DMBoss,
great to have you here !
You are very welcome.

Yes, unfortunately Mike is a bit slow in answering questions
and we have to be patient.
He seems to have a heavy job besides his hobby,
so gets only time in the nights to play
with his "toy".

He now answered, that he will try to build a second device,
so he could replicate it himself.

I hope he will soon answer our questions to the exact
ohmic resistance of all 3 coils
and all other exact specifications.

Guys, documentation is very important.
I have lost already a circuit in a Xenon tube-
oscillator setup, where I only
realized later, that I had more gain in output,
but did change a few wires and did not note the
exact setup and later could not find anymore the exact
old setup...too bad..

so please document instantly all your circuits, so you could
later replicate it yourself.

Many thanks and be patient with Mike.

P.S: John Bedini did send me an email and will
soon present his motor on his website also.

Regards, Stefan.

[DMBoss]

Also it appears Mike has this wired inadvertently backwards based on the original scope traces.  It is not wired to be a "motor" based on the main coil trace.  The ON condition voltage should be the sum of the capacitor or battery voltage, plus the intrinsic Counter EMF being produced by the main coil as rotor turns!!!

The fact his trace shows the ON time at near zero volts, says the main coil is wired as a generator! (and applying an outside voltage to the generator mode, will then cancel the Counter EMF so to speak, and draw all the capacitor's charge out as a high current, dropping the voltage to near zero)

To Illustrate my comment above, please see the attached image of a scope trace.  Scope is a 4 channel Tektronics TDS5034B with differential voltage probes, and clamp on current probe.

Channel 4 monitors the FIRE pulse from the digital feedback and control system using an optical encoder and PCI card with software to provide the pulse motor controller (using high capacity MOSFET's to switch fast and provide BEMF feedback or shunting).  Scope is triggered on the negative going pulse of the FIRE signal; which is an absolute shaft position based on the settings of the software and the absolute encoder signal.

Channel 1 is the coil voltage, and channel 2 is the current to that coil.  The math 1 waveform is the True instantaneous power of the coil. (measure and gating for the actual True power are not on in this shot)

You can see the intrinsic "Counter EMF" in the voltage trace before the drive power pulse is initiated.  The applied drive pulse (here from a battery) must rise above this "CEMF" produced by the motor coil/magnet else motor force will not occur.

Mike's trace shows no such condition.  He has got it wired "backwards" to normal "motor" operation. (which is part of the key as to why he gets something anomalous in my opinion) (combined with his third coil and it's switching regime too)

Cheers

[hartiberlin]

Hi DMBoss,
I know from former communication with you,
that you are a real expert and it is nice to see,
that you have these great measurement equipment and setups
and can tell us some real insights into the theory also.

Maybe you can try to replicate the Mike setup much more quickly
than others can do this over here.

It seems Mike?s setup is a Motor/Generator all in one device.
It also seems, that his main coil has more windings than the other 2
coils seems to be important , so the counter EMF is maybe suppressed
at the right moments...and the rotor so can freely move on or
gets a push forward...

Please post more of your insights, when you have the time to do so.
Many thanks in advance and please let?s crack the theory behind this
Mike motor together by brainstorming.

I hope Mike will soon post more scopeshots, so we
can compare it with your results.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.