Simple to make Hilden-Brand style motor

[Nali2001]

Hi Wiz,
Well about the motor, I had back then a bit of trouble getting much benefit from the addition of magnets. Only very slight, and the magnets also caused an amp increase... But I intend to do some flow up research into this thing.

About the ss430, I have this Bh curve if it is of any use:

Regards,
Steven

[Ergo]

Hi there Steven.

You seem like a very decent and logical guy.
Have you given my B/H curve explanation on the Hilden-Brand valve any more thoughts? Maybe going to build a test stand?
I'm refering to the case of twice the coil area giving the same magnetism as using half the coil and a neo magnet.
As you must have noticed by yourself when looking at the chart, the B/H curve stretches in both directions across zero.
Using a single large coil you just need to go from zero point to approx +1.5T to take advantage of the material properties.
But when a magnet is inserted the flux is flowing backwards through the coil and forcing the working point down to -1.5T.
Then you need to force it back past the zero point up to +1.5T to fully redirect the permanent flux. This takes twice the
as much energy as using just a single coil with twice the area.
Even thou the larger coil have higher resistance you don't need to apply twice the power because working point starts at
zero and not far down below at -1.5T as when using a magnet valve.

You can see it like this as well.
Hilden-Brand claims to get many times overunity from his magnet valve motors. Like 90W input and 1500W output.
He says that his valves have two streams of flux lines. One stream coming from the neo and the other one from the coil.
This is right, dual flux lines gives four times the force if the proper section area is used to prevent saturation.
But here comes the tricky part. He says himself having dual flux lines from a coil and a neo. Both having the same 1.5T
level of flux to form the quadrupled force. But what if he replaced the neo with a another coil. This would give him the same
dual flux lines that forms the quadrupled force. In the worst case scenario he would need 90+90W to run the motor.
And how can 180W input become 1500W overunity output if the neo is missing !!!!. I'm completly sure his valve is not OU.

Btw, he wouldn't need 180W in a dual coil motor because of the shifted B/H curve working point. The regular 90W would do fine.
And why have he never been able to run his motors at the same 8W as used in static mode. That is because of the coil inductance.
It will force him to increase he voltage just to reach the necessary 2 amps within a short timeframe. We are talking milliseconds.
And 2 amps x high voltage is a lot more than the static 8 watts.

[wizkycho]

Hi All !

just some toughts:

flux in a Coil doesn't need to create 1.5T to reroute 1.5T from permanent magnet. Coil has
to develop 1/4th - 1/5th or even less if alternative flux path is available. that 1/4 or 1/5th from coil
will allso travel with magnets field cause counter fields can not dimminish themselves. fields can only change vector. Proton and electron can dimminish their electrostatic fields if combined.

No need to go "high" with frequency, Infact in range 5Hz - 10Hz could suffice for proof of overunity.
that way wanted forces will act longer, making it easier to check for FE efects.

Coercivity of rotor allso could come up as small problem or even contribute to lowering down input.
If magnets on one stator-driver are counterpolarized from magnets on other stator-driver,  coercive
force will help in oppening-rerouting (on "approaching to") stator-driver PM flux lowering input needs. although coercivity will make drag back when leaving stator-driver.
If two adjanced stator-drivers are close enough coercive dragback will be nullified or even add to rotation cause of approching to pull-atrract action of counterpolarized PM on another stator-driver.

OU is not guranteed anywhere but then again nor is underunity. What is guaranteed is -273 C of Space. We must do better !!!
Here experiments are those that tells us that there might be some excess energy to collect.

Wiz

[Nali2001]

Hello Ergo,
Well at the moment I have no plans for adapting the motor to magnet-less cores, since I have no cores that size left. Plus they are pretty difficult to 'round out' for the rotor. But maybe someday.

I think you put Jacks results in a bit of bad picture, Since his output was i think lower than 2hp (or +- 1500watt)
It was 90watt in, against 0.5hp(+- 370watt) out. So it is not all that extreme at 1500watt out. But I could be wrong also.
I respect Jacks work and dedication so I will let him if needed correct you on that. If he feels like doing so.

The Bh curve 'shifting' is indeed correct. The magnet will in between pulses flip back into the valve and if it does so then it will set up a field of -1.5T(or any value/polarity) negative instead of the cores natural zero field state. So indeed the coil when fired up must first pull the core from -1.5T to 0T up to 1.5T.(or whatever values) But... and here is the thing about that. That does not necessary have to be a drawback in these dc pulsed systems. Like I have said many times before, the big problem of these dc pulsed systems is that the core field in between the pulses has the tendency to retain a certain level of magnetism and does not 'reset' itself to a 'zero' magnetism state, which causes bad performance due to the lack of real field change. Now here with the magnet we have a situation when the magnets, when the coil is off, actually draws the core field back into a posit polarity. So that when the next dc pulse comes there is a real field change happing. Now I do agree with you that the magnet 'shifts' the curve, but on the other hand it does enhance the otherwise bad performance of dc pulse systems. (not claiming instant o.u here though) Just by forcefully pulling the core field orientation back down again when the dc pulse is over. I can demonstrate this with this video:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BMN5JRGU
I decided to put the videos on a free host so just type in the 3 letters and click download - you probably have to wait 44seconds after that, before the download actually starts.

In the video you see a 'valve' (the lower part) in a 'transformer(upper part) configuration' The systems is driven with dc pulse circuit which has a slightly special approach to it to allow it to work reasonably well as a dc transformer. The dc transformer is powering a dc motor. Input is 12v 50% duty. So about: (12x4.5)/2= +-27watt. Now when the magnets are added on the valve, you will notice that the thing becomes more, or less efficient depending on the orientation of the magnets. Now it is my belief that the adding of the magnets flips the core magnetization polarity back to allow for a good field change in transformer action.
Also note how extremely sensitive the thing is, just by approaching the core there is an amp change, although I must say that that also could be due to the fact that these analogue meters have a magnet inside which could be acting to external fields.
But with the magnets in the 'good' position you are looking at (12x2.7)/2=16.8watt. Of course I was too stupid back then to measure the watt output...
So who knows the real efficiency.

Anyway here are the two test video's I made some time ago of the motor.

Video 1:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MKPZIM9T

Video2:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6T09L80D

[nievesoliveras]

Hi!

I think you should upload your videos to: http://www.mediafire.com/  This site has a faster service and it is free.

Jesus