Simple to make Hilden-Brand style motor

[i_ron]

If you refer to the video http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=5prfWVc--dc then this is not a dynamic test.
It's just a static test with magnets added. The flux have all the time it needs to build up when you press the button.
By dynamic I mean a motor at full speed (lot's of RPM)

I hold on to my claim that a core area of twice the size will do the same jobb as the magnet valve.
Just try it and see for your self. It should not be such a big deal for you with your mechancal skills.
snip
I have performed so many test on the Hilden-Brand valve myself ....

Wrong... it is a dynamic test. It is just one frame Also I gave the time as 140 ms. It should be apparent that there is no lag. You can see from the return speed that there is fairly strong spring.

What would be helpful is, if you could look up your notes from your tests and give me the small core
size, the number of turns, the wire size and the voltage and current it used...

Then the large core size, the number of turns, the wire size, and the voltage and current used.

Then the approximate lifting test of the two. As it is, I am uncertain when going to the larger core
if the wire size should be increased to make up for the longer wire length? Knowing what core
material and wire gauges you used would ensure a more successful duplication. One or two
pictures to indicate your setup and instruments used for measurement would be welcome.

Ron 

"I have performed so many test on the Hilden-Brand valve myself ", ergo post #77

[Ergo]

Wrong... it is a dynamic test. It is just one frame Also I gave the time as 140 ms. It should be apparent that there is no lag.
You can see from the return speed that there is fairly strong spring.

140ms is a very long time. It's just as long as it will take the valve to fully settle on 12V.
But you don't have access to 140ms when your motor is spinning.
In this case you will be facing ON times of a few milliseconds.
Now, just to make the valve reach the necessary current level at approx 2-3ms, you need plenty of voltage.
This is not doable at 12V as used in static mode.

Sorry, but I don't have any pictures on my valve setup but I still have my findings at work.
I'll post my data on monday.

Meanwhile, please build and test the valve with twice the core area and no magnets.
Otherwise you will never know what you are dealing with.

[LarryC]

@ I_ron,

Apparently you have attracted a Distraction Parasite!

Of course, you know your two main options:

A. Allow the parasite to continue to distract and thereby increase the number of post. Of course, the downside is having to respond to it's continuous inane request.

B. Disinfection. If you wish to do this, I would recommend options 1, 5, or 7 from the T  Parasite Disinfection guidebook.

Up to you. Please let me know if I can assist.

Regards, Larry

[i_ron]

@ I_ron,

Apparently you have attracted a Distraction Parasite!

Of course, you know your two main options:

A. Allow the parasite to continue to distract and thereby increase the number of post. Of course, the downside is having to respond to it's continuous inane request.

B. Disinfection. If you wish to do this, I would recommend options 1, 5, or 7 from the T  Parasite Disinfection guidebook.

Up to you. Please let me know if I can assist.

Regards, Larry

Thanks for your concern Larry!  I know the rules actually,

RULE ONE, never argue with an idiot, you only end up looking bad.

SECOND RULE ONE, don't respond to an agenda worker, the best response is no response.

So sorry, to play his game here....but, a certain amount of criticism is healthy, in that it makes one
rethink ones position and confirm one has not just been chasing rainbows but has made the correct
observations. 

Notice when Thane was under attack he got quite emotional, Igor has, in my mind, made the same
mistake. This is the working part of their agenda... to emotionally upset the list and the listee's
so that they will either quite the list or the project. I was letting this play out as education for the
list and the moderator, and to act as a sort of lightening rod to buffer Igor.

So I am pleased that you see this as something that might be a problem for me and appreciate
your offer of assistance, thanks. My hope was that everybody could see what was going on... but
I think that is just wishful thinking on my part.

Made a modicum of advancement to day, I was not happy with my previous setup to graph the
pull in... so redid it with a compound on both the horizontal and the vertical axis. More better!
Starting to get some repeatability. One thing I had noticed before was the drop in pull in when the
coil gets hot (warm) so was putting the coil outside to cool between tests. (possible when you live
up north, lol)

The tests were designed to see if there was a "best shape" and "best material". So have satisfied
myself that a rectangular cast iron bar is a good choice, coming out slightly ahead of SAE 1020
in 1 x 1 and 1.25 x 1.25 sizes and forth, a bar made with laminations.

It is ironical that we can't use the STRONG force in this... by that I mean if you take a decent sized
neo and stick it on a plastic covered lump of iron... you can't pull it off. That is the strong force. But
you can remove the neo by sliding it over to the edge and off, ...the WEAK force. So we are stuck with using the weak force in our attempted motor.  It's not fair!

Kind regards

Ron

 

[Ergo]

My last post in this matter.

I never meant to distract you from doing work.
What you are doing is fine but I find it strange if your not curious to know whether you have found overunity or not.
Many times people tend to fool themselves because they never bothered finding the right answer. It's just so painful.
Everything I told you is the pure truth. If you decide not to believe me then your mind is clouded and you will utterly fail.
You sound very unwilling to face reality by performing a simple test. But this could shatter your own imaginary perception.

My Claims.
1) When running your motor you'll notice that your dealing with milliseconds and this takes lot more power than static mode.
2) The available flux is not strengthen by the added magnet versus the power needed to run the valve.
3) The claims above and the fact that you still have to face the Lentz law when trying a self-runner will finally enlighten you.