Successful TPU-ECD replication !

[innovation_station]

hey otto

i have some speeker wire here is this what you mean it is 11ga super fine 336 strands

is

otto in your opinion when the wind blew over your tpu do you beleave it moved some of your tpu's   magnetic gas? out of the range where your collector could reach it?

it is the magas that maks the output no?

[Thaelin]

Hi Paul:
   This gives rise to an idea I had back some time ago. What you are saying here is that each of the three coils would have to be a different size. The 15" said the first freq was 35K and the third was 245K. For each of these coils to transfer energy at the highest power level, they would have to resonate at that specific frequency. Your formula may well be the key to finding the link between all three frequencies and what frequency the collector has to be to collect the product of the three. I would like to see this formula for sure. EM did a sim of two frequencies and showed a revolving third product of the two.
   With this in mind, would the product of the three produce the frequency of the output? Seeing how short the collectors have been, that would put it rather high but SM specificly said 5K with some hash.

   Anyhow, plz share the info as it may take us another step closer.

thanks

thaelin

@otto

I am in the process of reading your TPU pdf file. VERY INTERESTING! Some of the conclusions you investigated and tabled brought to remembrance some avenues of approach I used in my primary resonant design. In essence, if I remember correctly, a resonant long wire antenna, tuned for 1/4 wavelength, coiled to the resonant frequency diameter, with overall coild spaced to give proper inductance for said frequency.

Since the TPU does not employ a capacitive disruptive discharge system, this should be much simpler to figure. Since I will be dealing with only winding capacitance.

Then, it would follow that all of the other coils then be tuned inductively to this same frequency, at either 1/2 wavelength (the impulse coils) and 1/4 wavelength for the collector. With each coil precisely "tuned" to the overall system frequency, heat production should drop, and efficiency should rise.

Remeber that a coil has a different frequency than a straight wire, unless properly wound, since you gain both inductance and capacitance. A given length of straight wire will resonate at one frequency, but when rolled into a close wound coil of a given diameter, will resonate at a different frequency. Change the coil length with the same number of turns, and the frequency changes again. Change the coil diameter, and the resonant frequency changes again. The resonant frequency of any coil is dependant upon its length, diameter, inductance, and capacitance, and wire diameter (inductance and capacitance, since less wire area leaves less capacitance, and closer winding spacing of smaller wire more inductance).

I am either going to see whether I can find the grotesque formula I used to use if I can find it in my notes, or re-formulate it again from scratch for everyone to try.

Mismatched coils will "fight" each other at any frequency, producing excess heat, and lessened efficiency.

I used to think only in terms of coil resonance, but found that the combination of the antenna/resonant coil formulas gave both extra voltage "kick" as well as high efficiency.

If anyone has a particular frequency they wished computed, I can attempt it. 

By the way, has anyone used GM starter field winding wire? 1/4" wide flat strip about 1/8" thick (makes GREAT tesla primary winding)

@everyone concerning heat

Try immersing your TPU in distilled water, making sure that all wires are long enough to leave all connections outside of the water/TPU container. The TPU should be waterproof, with rubber and enamel insulation, and distilled water should work beutifully as a heatsink.

Paul Andrulis

Paul Andrulis

[pauldude000]

Here are some inductance formulas for those interested, and some handy online inductance tools:

1. Inductance of a short air core cylindrical coil in terms of geometric parameters:

L = (r^2 * N^2) / (9r + 10l)

WHERE:
L = inductance in ?H
r = outer radius of coil in inches
l = length of coil in inches
N = number of turns

2. For a multilayer air core coil:

L = (0.8r^2 * N^2) / (6r + 9l + 10d)

WHERE:
L = inductance in ?H
r = mean radius of coil in inches
l = physical length of coil winding in inches
N = number of turns
d = depth of coil in inches (i.e., outer radius minus inner radius)

3. Inductance of a flat spiral air core coil:

L = (r^2 * N^2) / (8r + 11d)

WHERE:
L = inductance in ?H
r = mean radius of coil in inches
N = number of turns
d = depth of coil in inches (i.e., outer radius minus inner radius)

4. Inductance of a winding around a toroidal ring of core material (metric formula) :

L = (4PI ? 10^-7 * μr ) / ( (N^2 * r^2) / D)

WHERE:
L= inductance in H
μr = relative permeability of core material
N = number of turns
r = radius of coil winding in meters
D = overall diameter of toroid in meters

5. Inductance of a straight wire (metric formula in CM):

LOW FREQUENCY
L = 2 * l * (ln(2 * l / r) - .75)

HIGH FREQUENCY
L = 2 * l * (ln(2 * l / r) - 1)

WHERE:
L= inductance in nanohenries
l = length of wire in centimeters
r = radius of wire in centimeters

6. ONLINE TOOLS

Basic Inductance Calculator:  http://www.66pacific.com/calculators/coil_calc.aspx

Better Inductance Calculator, which also yields ton of data, and self-resonant frequency of coil, however is in metric:  http://hamwaves.com/antennas/inductance.html

[pauldude000]

Hi Paul:
   This gives rise to an idea I had back some time ago. What you are saying here is that each of the three coils would have to be a different size. The 15" said the first freq was 35K and the third was 245K. For each of these coils to transfer energy at the highest power level, they would have to resonate at that specific frequency. Your formula may well be the key to finding the link between all three frequencies and what frequency the collector has to be to collect the product of the three. I would like to see this formula for sure. EM did a sim of two frequencies and showed a revolving third product of the two.
   With this in mind, would the product of the three produce the frequency of the output? Seeing how short the collectors have been, that would put it rather high but SM specificly said 5K with some hash.

   Anyhow, plz share the info as it may take us another step closer.

thanks

thaelin

1. Exactly the same size and therefore frequency (same exact wire length, no of turns, coil form diameter), or different sizes tuned to same frequency (same exact wire length, with coils all wound to different sizes, but still tuned to same frequency).

The above for single frequency output.

2. DIfferent sized coils with different wire lengths with each coil tuned for a harmonic of the same frequency (tesla approach).

Yes, the conbined product of the three directly create a modulated waveform which the output resonates at, or doesn't resonate at all at, if the frequencies are not proper 1/4 wave harmonics of each other.

THE FEQUENCIES HAVE TO BE 1/4 wave matched, to resonate harmonically (mutual wave amplification) and not destructively (mutual wave reduction) in the same coil circuit. If harmonic, the wave amplitudes will rise (since they hit peak all at the same time), and the frequencies evenly blend.  Literally, at the point where the longest wave (smallest frequency) hits max, the harmonic shorter waves (higher frequency) hit max, and where the longest wave zero's, so do the shorter waves. When choosing harmonics, these are what to calculate for. Pick your lowest resonant frequency, and then choose larger. Hint, every half wave should have 2, 4, 6, etc..  to accomplish this. I will post later with an image of what I am talking about.

I used this technique to build a precisely matched primary circuit/secondary circuit tesla coil forever back. You would have liked it. It was so small it was cute. 2 1/2 inches of 40ga copper wire from those tiny deflection coils out of a tv on a cardboard toilet paper tube. Primary a whopping 20 ga, wrapped on a small sloped sour cream tub. Isolated 25w power supply, with glass plate caps. Brilliant purple arc averaged 4" long and 1/8 to 1/4 inches thick. Not bad for a toy ehh? Considering most people build 8 to 10 inch tall coils for similar output. It was so sensitive though, that 1/8 of an inch off placement in the tunable primary would drastically affect output.

ADVICE, dont even sneeze when winding 40 guage wire. 

Even with pulsed square wave, you should be able to get a pyrimidal semi-sine output, if I remember correctly. IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME, as I haven't built a coil in five to ten years, and it was fifteen since my old piece of junk oscilloscope shot its last tube, so please be patient with me.

It will probably be either extremely late tonight, or tommorrow before I respond again, since I have to replace my sump pump in my basement tonight. (fun, fun, and more fun)

[otto]

Hello all,

@IS

I was thinking about a PC flat cable that has a lot of isolated strands and inside this strands are a lot of fine wires. Of course, you can try your speaker wire. Maybe its better then my lamp cable.
I dont want to speculate if this was a magnetic gas or not. I SAW my voltage dropped arround 10% when the wind was cooling my TPU.

@Thaelin

we have 3 frequencies and we need 3 coils that are different. Im all the time looking for the best solution for my 3 control coils.

You all remember my 50 turns coil test. A coil was wound over my 2 fingers.
Last week I did the same but wound the same lenght of coil over my 1 finger, then over 2 fingers, then over 3 fingers, then over 4 fingers.
Best results over 3 or 4 fingers but I tried to build a TPU with a flat cable collector, in Mobius way connected, with 3 coils wound over my 3 fingers and failed totally. I did something wrong.

@Paul

thanks for the formulas. Yes, again, every coil MUST be different in lenght.
For now I will see why the 3. coil with the lowest frequency is sooooo a big s..t.
Ok, its working in harmony with the other 2 cotrols but there is only a little "help " from this 3. control. I will try to cut the lenght of this control and if its not working I want to make then a muuuuch longer 3. control coil and maybe this helps.
What I know for now is that I need a shorter 3. control coil. We will see.

Otto