The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory

[utilitarian]

By the way, Tseung's entire principle is based on this faulty premise that the string somehow does work, so I hope it is clear now how goofy that principle is.

Dear utilitarian,

You raised a very good point.  Many people also thought that the string could do no work if it is not stretched or shortened.  If the pendulum bob is just hanging, the string will do no work (correct).  If the pendulum bob is pulled to a new position and if the string is not stretched or shortened, the string will do no work (incorrect).  Work is done during the moving.

For a vigorously trained Physicist, a force can be resolved into two components.  The most common is resolving it into the horizontal and vertical component.  We can then examine each component and see if it does any work.

The string is at an angle.  So the tension (a force) can be resolved into the vertical and the horizontal components. 

Focus on the bob, there is both vertical and horizontal displacement when it is pulled by the First Lee-Tseung pull.  This means that it has both vertical and horizontal displacement (from the starting vertical position).

In Physics and in Vector Mathematics, we can treat the vertical and horizontal components separately and combine them afterwards. 

Thus there is positive work done by the vertical component of the string as the vertical direction of the tension and the displacement are the same.  There is negative work by the horizontal component of the string as its direction is opposite to that of displacement.

The above description can be double checked and verified by almost all top Physics Professors and textbooks.  Please review this section of Physics and Vector Mathematics.  I welcome your further comments.  It will help all.

Sorry bud.  I can tell you are really into this, and have spent years working this up, but you are completely wrong.  You are correct in everything up until you get to the part where the string does work.

Look, just picture it a different way.  Let's say there is no string.  All we have is a hollow cylinder, placed horizontally like a pipe and fixed in place so it cannot roll.  Ball rests at bottom.  You give the ball a push, and the ball rises. Does the cylinder do any work?  No.  Even though it feels increased  force from the ball, it does not move, and therefore can do no work.  Your pendulum is no different.  So long as the string does not shorten, it cannot do any work.

If indeed all the top physics professors have verified your theory, please refer us to a single one of these.  Perhaps he or she can explain it better. Top Gun does not count - he sounds too much like an alter ego.

[chrisC]

Sorry bud.  I can tell you are really into this, and have spent years working this up, but you are completely wrong.  You are correct in everything up until you get to the part where the string does work.

Look, just picture it a different way.  Let's say there is no string.  All we have is a hollow cylinder, placed horizontally like a pipe and fixed in place so it cannot roll.  Ball rests at bottom.  You give the ball a push, and the ball rises. Does the cylinder do any work?  No.  Even though it feels increased  force from the ball, it does not move, and therefore can do no work.  Your pendulum is no different.  So long as the string does not shorten, it cannot do any work.

If indeed all the top physics professors have verified your theory, please refer us to a single one of these.  Perhaps he or she can explain it better. Top Gun does not count - he sounds too much like an alter ego.

You Utilitarian must not have met Tseung's double, triple, quadruple persona.... Top Gun, Devil, Forever....
We'll I hope you now know why this gentleman is so very confused! Even the patent office has the same problem.

As for you old Tseung. I have a contact you can and should reach. He's the head of the Mechanical Engineering Department of Hong Kong Poly and lives down the road from you. Do pay him a visit and hopefully he will help you sort out your mumbo jumbo Physics. He is younger, better looking but don't be intimidated, after all, you're the Master aren't you? Even the Devil worships you!

Here's the info. and his photo.
btw, he speaks your native Cantonese and great English. Now you don't have the excuse that those famous commie professors can't speak your dialect?

Please let us know what he has to say about your Physics and Math..
Hopefully, you won't need your medication or your multiple persona to support you.

Prof. Jian Lu
Chair Professor and Head
Department of Mechanical Engineering
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University

[exnihiloest]

...
(2)   http://www.wipo.int/ipdl/IPDL-IMAGES/PATENTSCOPE/74/32/bd/0032bd.pdf
...

...
It's wrong. The tension of the string does no work because there is no motion along the string.
F.dl=0 as dl=0 in the direction of the force vector (tension) of the string.

...
You correctly stated that there is no motion along the string or that the string itself does not stretch. However, there is movement of the string from its original to its new position.

But this movement is not relevant with regard to a hypothetical work of the tension of the string cause it is perpendicular to the string.
So the statement in the pdf is wrong. If you know basic physics you should be also in agreement with that.

The Tension of the string itself can be resolved in the vertical and the horizontal direction. The vertical component is T1cos(a) which is equal and opposite to the weight Mg.

The horizontal component is T1sin(a) which is equal and opposite to the horizontal force F.

The displacement of the string or bob can also be resolved into the vertical and the horizontal directions.  The vertical component is dH and in the same direction of the vertical force component of the string.  Thus vertical work must be done. 

Vertical work is not done by the string. The string just prevents the bob from following its inertial movement. It is the same thing as an electron flying perpendicular to a magnetic field. The magnetic field let the electron to adopt a circular motion and nevertheless no work is provided by the magnetic field.

In order to get a work a force or force component must exist in the same direction than the displacement. It's not the case here: the horizontal component from the tension force is strictly compensated by the force Fh=m.Ah due to the decelerating bob where Ah in the acceleration component in the horizontal plane. Same thing in the vertical direction.

The value is T1cos(a) x L(1-cos(a)) or T1 x L x cos(a) x (1-cos(a).  If we substitute the actual values where M = 60 kg; g = 9.8 m/s/s; F=1/6 Mg; angle a = 9.46 degrees; L = 1 meter; we get the value (as in the post by Top Gun, reply1906), 0.8133 Joules.

The horizontal component of the displacement is dX and is in the opposite direction of the horizontal component of the force (tension) of the string.  In Physics, that is regarded as negative work done.  Negative work done can be viewed as energy stored in the system.  That negative work is 1.610728 Joules.

This energy is not stored in the system. Why? It's exactly the energy spent in the same time by the bob to move in the vertical direction against the gravitation. The string acts just as a mean to convert energy. It doesn't participate itself in the energy balance.

[ltseung888]

As for you old Tseung. I have a contact you can and should reach. He's the head of the Mechanical Engineering Department of Hong Kong Poly and lives down the road from you. Do pay him a visit and hopefully he will help you sort out your mumbo jumbo Physics. He is younger, better looking but don't be intimidated, after all, you're the Master aren't you? Even the Devil worships you!

Here's the info. and his photo.
btw, he speaks your native Cantonese and great English. Now you don't have the excuse that those famous commie professors can't speak your dialect?

Please let us know what he has to say about your Physics and Math..
Hopefully, you won't need your medication or your multiple persona to support you.

Prof. Jian Lu
Chair Professor and Head
Department of Mechanical Engineering
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University

Dear chrisC,

This is a very constructive post.  I shall contact Prof. Lu after the Easter Holidays.  You can alert him via email or phone since you know him.  You can copy me.  My email address is ltseung@hotmail.com.

I am happy to share the Lee-Tseung Theory with all - especially the qualified scientists and engineers.

[ltseung888]

Vertical work is not done by the string. The string just prevents the bob from following its inertial movement. It is the same thing as an electron flying perpendicular to a magnetic field. The magnetic field let the electron to adopt a circular motion and nevertheless no work is provided by the magnetic field.

In order to get a work a force or force component must exist in the same direction than the displacement. It's not the case here: the horizontal component from the tension force is strictly compensated by the force Fh=m.Ah due to the decelerating bob where Ah in the acceleration component in the horizontal plane. Same thing in the vertical direction.

The value is T1cos(a) x L(1-cos(a)) or T1 x L x cos(a) x (1-cos(a).  If we substitute the actual values where M = 60 kg; g = 9.8 m/s/s; F=1/6 Mg; angle a = 9.46 degrees; L = 1 meter; we get the value (as in the post by Top Gun, reply1906), 0.8133 Joules.

Dear exnihiloest,

I am glad that there is actually someone discussing physics in this forum.  It does not matter if there is disagreement now.  It is important to have the various points of view laid out in the open.

In the first Lee-Tseung Pull as described in Slides 10-12, we have not considered the swinging motion of the pendulum yet.  The scenario is simplified to be:

(1)   A horizontal force is supplied externally to pull the bob.
(2)   The bob moves in the direction of the pull and also slightly upwards.  In Physics, we say that there is both horizontal displacement and vertical displacement.
(3)   There are THREE forces in the pendulum system at this point ? Tension in the string, weight of the bob and the horizontal force.
(4)   Work has been done on the bob.  Or energy has gone into the pendulum system.
(5)   It is a matter of analyzing which force is responsible for which part of the displacement and how the energy goes into the pendulum system.

I boiled the discussion into exact equations.  Mathematics cannot lie.  If every equation and statement in Slides 10-12 is 100% correct, we have to conclude that gravitational energy is Lead Out.

That implies the Milkovic Pendulum is not a hoax.  (After we discuss the magnetic pendulum and the rotations, many other inventions are no longer hoaxes.  Examples include Newman, Bedini, Adams motor etc.)  These inventions are confirmations of the Lee-Tseung Theory.