Circuit setups for pulse motors

[hoptoad]

Getting some great results from my Bedini wheel on 24v. Ive realised that if 1 wants mechanical power a higher voltage is desired. It can run quite efficiently on 50 ma with decent speed/torque. Also my window motor is going well, it can be tripped into solidstate quite easily and has very interesting properties!

Ive uploaded another video to you tube, I'll have to make some more.

@Ren,
I meant to get back to you on this issue of mechanical power. As you may/already have discover/ed, 24 watts motor running on a Voltage of 24 Volts X 1 Amp, yields a higher mechanical efficiency than a 24 watts motor running on voltage of 12 Volts X 2 Amps.
Why? Power lost through Heat which is driven by current consumption.

But which has the maximum absolute torque? The less efficient 12 Volt X 2 Amps system. Why?. Because current does create the magnetic field strength of an electromagnetic core.

Is it possible to get the best of both higher voltage and higher current without actually contributing the higher current directly?
YES.

Ren you indicated that you were looking at mechanical efficiency in your recent switch to a 24 Volts supply. That's a good move to the higher supply, because it allows you to use high impedance coils (which you already are! 3000 turns? from memory?)

Try taking a lateral step sideways, and separate your drive coil function from your trigger coil function. You can do this by winding a fine
.1mm wire coil onto a small steel nail or screw core and using it as a separate trigger coil which can be physically placed wherever you want it. With fine wire you can wind 400-500 turns or more. By separating the drive and trigger coil, you can better adjust the actual pulse width of the trigger, but also more importantly the pulse angle with respect to the drive coil.

You may need to put a diode directly across the new trigger coil in opposite direction to the base to emiiter/sink connection of your Transistor/Mosfet. You can still use pots in line with the transistor to fine tune the pulse.

Now to the subject of higher current without paying the price of consumption. You may remember that efficient use of a collapsing field will be maximized when the total "Virtual Drive" pulse of the core is less than or equal to 50%. High impedance cores can have a long "time constant" when the Collapsing field is discharged through an electrical regeneration or torque enhancing circuit.

That's where a step-down transformer output coil and a tightly controlled short duty cycle come into their best effect.
Try winding a 150 - 300 turns high diameter (.62 - . coil outside your drive coil. The low impedance step-down coil when shorted by a Diode in the correct polarity direction, will provide a high current at the collapse of the main drive coil, but it will possess a short "time constant" and this will ensure a greater chance of the Virtual Pulse (usable Pulse) to remain under 50% and still be significantly longer than the Actual Pulse (current consumption).

Bear in mind, this will turn all the Collapsing EMF and "in-phase" rotational Magnet Induced EMF into mechanical torque, at the expense of CEMF electrical regeneration. Its' a choice of one or the other using this method.

Cheers from the Toad Who Hops 

[Artic_Knight]

how well does a perm magnet motor work if it is attracted to iron and then electricity is used to release it from that grip? i am reading mixed results as to the electrical input needed to release a magnet from iron, some say it is more effecient some say less in terms of torque vs current.

[hoptoad]

how well does a perm magnet motor work if it is attracted to iron and then electricity is used to release it from that grip? i am reading mixed results as to the electrical input needed to release a magnet from iron, some say it is more effecient some say less in terms of torque vs current.

@Artic
"How well does a perm magnet motor work if it is attracted to iron and then electricity is used to release it from that grip? "

As with all motors that depends on many mechanical and electrical issues in the design of the motor.
How well it is machined, the mass and strength of the magnets, and the mass of the rotor and stator, coil winding type, iron core size, frequency of operation........, etc....
.
The stronger the magnet, and the closer it is to the iron, the more current will be needed for a given voltage to cause the magnet to lose it's grip on the iron.

@Artic
"i am reading mixed results as to the electrical input needed to release a magnet from iron, some say it is more effecient some say less in terms of torque vs current."

Put in its simplest form, the speed of any electrical motor without a load will increase or decrease depending on the Voltage. The actual torque (true grunt!  LOL) of the motor when mechanically loaded will be dependent on the current it can draw from any given voltage. The higher the current availability, the higher the torque will be. Classic examples of high torque DC motors are starter motors on the engine of a car. They consume huge amounts of current to deliver a great deal of torque during the brief time you usually take to start your car.

Any motor, if designed correctly for the load it will bear, can be made reasonably efficient, but normal Permanent Magnet DC shunt wound motors are hard to beat when it comes to needing a lot of true grunt (torque) in a little package!

For low powered, highly energy efficient motors, you can't overlook the motor that's turning your Hard Drive as a very good example. They are a closed magnetic system, pulsed motor, made with multiple coil phases and consume very little current. They function in a manner which is nothing like a normal PM DC shunt wound motor.

Most experimenters in this thread are experimenting with an "open magnetic system" motor, which have characteristics more similar to your Hard Drive motor in their mode of operation, utilizing a DC supply with pulsing circuitry to drive the motor coils.

Cheers from The Toad who Hops

[Artic_Knight]

well i dont know how much lb force i will need in the magnets yet since i have not started the design phase, hell i havent even started the testing! but what im looking for is the most electrically effecient motor i can get my hands on to power a car. i think its going to need to be 75-100 horse power. with that being said it sounds like a iron core sized to accept the full magnetic force without saturation is the best motor on an attraction phase with just enough current to release the magnet and considering there will be back emf it will need a design that pulls that from the windings and uses it in some manner for the motor. from what i have read a motor using 450 miliamp and 12 volt generally has 5 volt back emf at 150 miliamp, if that is used thats a good increase in effeciency over production line motors for sale today however how does that 300 miliamp draw compare to other motors of same torque?  so now i guess the only way to answer my questions is to test.

lets face it, if this motor is half as effecient as people are bragging then it will be much more effecient than todays motors. so now that raises another question... who killed the electric motor? :-p

[casman1969]

To all;

I've been having mixed results (failures) for a long time now. Trying various configurations that approach unity but don't quite get there...
Latest thought is to now wind my Adams style coils on thin grade HOLLOW steel core of hopefully 1/2" diameter. Someone told me this configuration exibits much more power than any other core.
Just wanted to pass this one on in the hope it will help one of us to get-er-done!
Good luck all,

Carl