I need help with a KEELY project

[hansvonlieven]

G?day all,

I need your help.


For many years there has always been something in the back of my mind nagging me about Keely?s system. Only now did I come to grips with what it was.

As you perhaps know in Keely?s later machines the liberator and the motor communicate with each other via two independent circuits. One is the direct connection by wire or tube, the other one, what Keely calls the diatonic scale rings that are seemingly identical and are fitted to both devices.

This is  a photograph of the motor and liberator



The liberator is the small device in the left foreground. Here is a picture of the liberator on its own



Note the diatonic scale ring on the bottom.

I have also a photograph of the diatonic scale ring in my  collection. The device in the photo has obviously been damaged. Some of the resonators are bent, others appear to be broken.

In an attempt to analyse the scale I took the distortion out of the picture with the comparatively crude software at my disposal and suddenly it became clear to me what had been bothering me for so long.

In spite of its name it is not a diatonic scale at all along the lines that Keely constructed all other scales (thirds) but appears to be a logarithmic spiral.

Seemingly all notes of the scale are represented, in contradiction to most of what he is saying elsewhere about discords.

I need someone with better software and more expertise in these matters than me to take the distortions out of the picture which will hopefully enable me to make relative measurements and come up with the algorithm that Keely used in its construction.

Here is  the original photo and the reworked one so you can see what I mean.





It has long been my contention that Keely achieved the extremely high frequencies he was working with through some sort of acoustic regenerative feedback. For my thoughts on the matter see http://www.keelytech.com/regenerative.html

I believe the scale in question was Keely?s attempt to control the feedback and prevent runaway frequencies that, as you perhaps know, plague that sort of system.

Even with all the wizardry of modern electronics this is still a problem awaiting a satisfactory solution.

I believe that all of Keely?s difficulties in trying to control runaway speeds and reversions are due to his inability to come to grips with that particular problem.

A point worth mentioning here is that I consider the key to that ring of resonators an important step towards understanding Keely's scales.

Even on my crude attempt to take the distortion out there is a noteworthy aspect.

Assuming all resonators are made from the same piece of drawn wire, which appears to be the case and is logical, and taking the longest wire as the fundamental of the scale, something appears from the relationship between the resonators that could give us a vital clue to Keely's scale construction.

The longest resonator seems to be exactly six times as long as the shortest, which will give us sixths. The resonator an octave above the shortest is then set on thirds. About the ones in between I can only speculate at the moment.

We have now a unique graphic illustration of Keely's approach. Assuming then that the largest resonator is set to B-flat, as would seem logical, the unscrambling of the other notes would appear to be important.

I appreciate that Keely's B-flat is not determinable as we do not know which concert pitch he used. A=440 was not generally introduced until the 1950's and is still not in universal use. Keely is almost certain to have used something different.

Nevertheless here is a real chance to learn something, at least in my view.

So, if some of you are interested in helping me to solve this puzzle please offer your suggestions.

Hans von Lieven

[hansvonlieven]

G'day all,

Come on boys, lend a hand with this one. Surely on a forum such as this there is someone who knows something about the kind of computer programmes that can do a job of this sort. I know these programmes exist, I just don't know where to start looking for one, or for someone that can do the job.

Hans von Lieven

[hansvonlieven]

Thanks for your input Erfinder,

I am well aware of Keely's graduation. If you have a look at my website you will find my ideas on what Keely did to achieve the purity of resonance required for his system to work.

I am, on this one aspect, interested in the exact algorithm used to compute this specific scale. Once I know even roughly what the relationships are between the individual notes, I am sure I can find a mathematician who could come up with the equation. I am not so sure that the algorithm can be arrived at by Fadic addition.

I will look closer into your suggestion. thanks a lot, I need all the help I can get. :-)

Hans von Lieven

[Gothic]

free and opensource image manipulation   http://www.gimp.org/

[BRAHMA]

HI everyone,

I'm a new member but a long time reader of this forum.

perhaps, you should take the math out of this enigma and seek a musician to shed some light on the diatonic scale of Keely.  It seems (only from the photo's) that these wires may be 'plucked' to discern the coordination of the pitches and then someone with a seasoned ear (a musician) can better describe the relationships of the pitches. 

Also,  I read that Keely was sold on the "magical" properties of Bb.  If you re insert the math portion of music, you will see a fairly close similarity of the frequency of Bb and the Frequency of the Earth being just under 8hz Although the Earth resonates several Octaves below the usable music scale.  This can be visualized by the fact that string when plucked will produce a pitch with a certain frequency and if you double the length of the string, the frequency will be divided in half.  And proprtionaltely, if you divide the string in half, the frequency will double.

Take note that an object will resonate with a frequency that is proportionate to it's size.  The string used in A above middle C on a piano woll resonate @440 Hz while the size of the Earth,  Being Much larger, will have a significantly lower frequency. 

As to the confusion about exactly what frequency Mr. Keely used to tune his Bb, take note that Modern tuning has progressively gone flat.  Meaning,  The A 440Hz of today Had a higher frequency during say Mozart's time.  And the Bb during Keely's life would be slightly Higher pitched than todays Bb.

If you havn't to the conclusion by now, I am a musician by profession and a avid admirer of the sciences.