Nathan Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications

[RAM]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the reply, you just told me a lot of stuff that I didn't find in the thread, and I finished reading the whole of it!
But the fact that we use the same metal does not discard the galvanic reaction, because the soil is not uniform, and as such you have a different chemistry for different spots... Any battery cell needs 4 things: one reduction equation, an oxidation equation, a salt bridge and the electric circuit.

The electrode may or may not be the used in the redox equations, there are cells with different electrolytes and both electrodes are inerts, like the standard battery cell:
- Platinum electrodes (non reactive)
- Iron ions electrolyte ( equation Fe³⁺ + e^- â†' Fe²⁺)
- Copper ions electrolyte ( equation Cu⁺ â†' Cu²⁺ + 2e^-)
- salt bridge

This is why I think is important to clearly prove that orientation matters: that is not galvanic.

I did the following test: I placed one electrode with several others every 45 degrees around it. The central one is the reference. I measured the difference of potential and recorded the results. Then I got a second “ring” and repeated the process.
I have some results, but I will keep measuring daily to get to a conclusion.

The second thing I did was to place an oscilloscope in the ground. I only had a few minutes of daylight, so it was a “fast” scan. I failed to investigate the lower frequencies, because of a strong 50 Hz interference (remember that I am using a very low voltage at millivolts level). It was a portable scope with a bad battery, so it was plug into the mains: it doesn't work well for low frequencies and low signals.
But at high frequencies, I got something. There where some sporadic pulses (ringing of sorts) with (at least) 2 distinct frequencies of 10 MHz and 1.4 MHz (I have a picture of it). I need to capture the wave to treat the results, but I didn't have time to install the software in a PC.

About measures: I did not make myself very clear about the AC issue. If you invert the polarity at AC measures you will get exactly the same thing and not negative. There is no such thing as a negative AC value, because it has no polarity. AC translates to a current that goes periodically from positive to negative.
The difference between an analog multimeter and a digital, when AC is concerned, is that the digital needs a filter to stabilize the rectified AC signal. Then it measures it as if it where DC.
The analog multimeter is a different animal, because it is mechanical and cannot react fast enough. This makes possible to forget the filter: the coil assembly *is the filter*.

Now, this is good for 50&60 Hz sine waves, and nothing more. A weak signal is a problem, a DC component is a problem, a shape different from a sine wave is a problem, and frequency is a problem.

So, in this case, forget the AC completely. Its meaningless.

Do not trust me on this, check it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter#Alternating_current_sensing

I actually had to learn how to build these equipments, either analog or digital.

[Pirate88179]

Ram:

Thank you for the info.  If you have read the topic then you know I never claimed to know very much about electronics or meters.  I do have to say that I have come a long way by reading and experimenting.  I know one hell of a lot more now then when I started but, I still am no expert on any of this.

I will have to try the ac readings again just to make sure.  I have no reason to doubt what you say however.  We have had several educated folks on here over time telling us the ac measurement was useless as you have also said.  Thank God you have a scope.  I think a few scope measurements of various set ups will tell us quite a bit.  I have always suspected that this is either pulsed dc at an unknown frequency or frequencies or some other kind of ac.  I am still leaning toward pulsed dc although I have no scientific reason to do so.  I am glad you have joined our efforts here.  I have to admit, in the beginning, I liked the "ac" measurements because they were always a little higher than the dc readings.  I always reported my results in both ac and dc but it was nice to see about 10-20% higher numbers on the ac settings.

I can't remember but I believe Jim took some scope readings.  Maybe not...my memory is so bad these days.  I do recall that he had some leakage from some home circuit into his results.  Jim, If I am remembering this wrong, please correct me.

I do believe we will see multiple frequencies because why would the earth just emit one?  Of course, we are pumping in 60hz into the ground all over the world these days so that would not surprise me to see that one....but, I believe there will be others as well.  If we can focus on these frequencies or frequency, maybe we can design something that will work with resonance to up our output.

Anyway, glad to have you aboard.

Bill

[RAM]

Bill,

I know, from the thread, that people are learning a lot of new stuff. Actually this is a good thing, because when you already “know”, it is difficult to “learn” new things. Hell, most people who are professional in this area would promptly dismiss this issue as galvanic without thinking for more than a second.
What separates the inventors at the 1800's from today is that little was known at the time, everybody was experimenting and analyzing things without preconceptions.

Like someone already said on overunity, lets keep our eyes open, be prepared to revise what we know, but we cannot throw everything overboard.

I dont have high hopes for that pulse, because there are lots of possible interferences. A good thing NS had in his time was a clean electromagnetic environment. To learn what he learned, we must see things a bit like it was at his time. So, I doubt he could “see” the pulses at MHz level, but maybe he could hear the “pops”. I am going to make some measurement at a remote location to check for this.

I already noticed something that makes a lot more sense and would be noticed with the equipment NS had: when you *make* the circuit to measure the earth battery's voltage, the measures jump around for a while. I would love to see this in the scope, but when I plug it to earth I have the 50 Hz component blocking everything. I really hate this scope! I wish I could change the battery, but I cannot open it without losing the oficial calibration seal.

Lots of rain today, so there is little I can do.


As for AC measures, he is some more info:
The “form factor” for sinewave is 1,11 times the average of the rectified signal, that is what the multimeter's should use. The trouble is, that the equipment can only rectify half the wave, so it will only get half the average. To make the calculations it must multiply the resulting average by 2 and then apply the form factor.

This means that, if you measure a DC value of 1,551 V, after rectifying it you would have an average of 1,551 V â€" Vd (diode voltage drop). Lets say the diode has 0,3 V drop, then you really measure 1,251 V that is multiplied by 2 and by 1,11. That gives you a 2,77 reading at AC.
Thats what I get for my multimeter, and thats what you had with yours (a while back).

Best regards,

Ram

[electricme]

@ lbnc392001
Deals on copper and iron wire differs between places, I suggest you look around for a place that "repairs or rewinds" electric motors, they will have on hand giant spools of every size copper wire, ask them for a kilo or a Lnb of the stuff. Then again, ask them if they have any on a roll that they carnt use as it's too short to make a set of windings I once worked in one place rewinding 3phase motors, and we often had almost empty spools lying around.

On the second question you posted, of "wooden" spool, the only wooden bits NS used was to use wooden ends.
These are placed at either end of the iron bolt, they "contain" the windings, keeping them all lined up and tight.

What you are meaning I think is the insulation used between the primary and secondary coil layers, you could try cotton, or oiled paper.
If using the oiled paper, wrap a couple of turns of paper around the "finished" primary coil, glue the leading edge down, then you could impregnate it with oil, or varnish. Varnish would be the preferred choice, varnish could be used on the cotton as well.

Hope this helps.
jim
 

[electricme]

I posted a reply but didn't see it so I will try again, if the orig appears I will remove it.


@ RAM
I also would like to welcome you to this Nathan Stubblefield forum.
It's good to have someone who is willing to help with the electronic side of things, especially theory.

Bill was right about my scope readings, seems there was involved a stray 50hz leakage in my house wiring, but I also discovered it was also being fed to the scope via the 3pin 240v plug, (as well of the probes). I took a look around the net and it also is apparent that all scopes which use town power has this effect, so what ever you do, stick with that battery powered scope, (If you leave your employer, offer to BUY it) even if you have to make up a big battery pack so you can extend the time of usage. Hot swappable batteries, like used by an UPS springs to mind as a good idea.

I also got very confused from the huge differences of waveforms, sometimes it would seem to be static, other times it would change at will, othertimes the waveform would dissapear, reappear, other times it would shimmer, even saw some ringing going on.
I thought all this might be caused by a faulty scope so I went out and bought another one, just to verify the originals waveform, but no, both scopes were showing the same waveforms in unison.
So ram, there is something (earth current voltage) and it does exist, the hard part is to harness it and get some jucy amps 

@ all
I have been fiddling around a bit, trying to make my own instruments, however, today I had a bit of success.

I have 2 VU meters I took off an old amplifier found in the local tip (free store), I soldered a fig8 lead to one of the meters, connected to my zinc and carbon in the back yard,and the needle barely lifted off the stop.
BUT for the first time I got a result from something other than using a digital meter.
This got me all fired up so I did the same thing with a much bigger meter. 

I had a old exhaust moving coil meter that I salvaged from the dump, disconnected the printed circuit board and connected a 2 meter length of insulated fig8 leads to the + and - terminals, connected 2 alligator clips to the ends and clipped them to zinc and carbon rods.
I got a result, well what I mean is the needle woke up and moved about 1/3 of the way along the scale, (much further than the 1st VU setup), my digital multimeter says 80.0mv so I'm happy with this.

I reversed the connections and the needle went backwards, good, now I have a analog thingie that is capable of working with ultra low earth currents. ha ha.

I took a photo of this so I will post it after downloading off my mob ph.

I am using zinc plates as - and carbon rod as +, being buried vertically, I have a series of 4 setup in a Nth to Sth line in my back yard, each bank gives out similar readings, however connecting in series seems to increase the voltage out but every time I connect another cell set, it to the previous set, seems to increase but lowers the voltage. There seems to be a reduction when each earth cell is placed in line with the one infront of it. I see others have had this effect also.

for example 1st cell = 6v.   2nd cell = 6v.   3rd cell =   6v.   4th cell =  6v in total one would think = 24v   .... Nope not with NS stuff
in practice   1st cell = 6v + 2nc cell = 9v + 3rd cell = 12v + 4th cell = 15v. a loss of                    = 9v     ....   (EXAMPLE only)

There appears to be a continuous reduction as one places more cells together in the series circuit
     
BTW the old HW system is no more, the shiny new one has taken its place at long last.

jim