Nathan Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications

[MW383]

Hello,

I brand new here and interested in the earth battery concept. I'll begin by admitting that I am not an electrical person. I do have 7 years experience in the battery industry however.

I did some experimenting last weekend using 1ft x 1"diameter copper pipe and 8in x .125"diameter zinc nails. Various placements tried. Copper pipe placed 10" into ground. Zinc nails placed from 1ft away down to 1in away. Voltages pretty steady at about 0.9VDC. Amperages in the .005 - .010 range. At closest spacing amps initially higher but did fall off rapidly from what I am assuming is a load coming from my analog multimeter. At more distant spacing, amps were lower but the falling off was less and total sustained amps was greater.

I also placed nails inside the dirt within copper pipe. Worked even better.

(note: all initial experimentation done on extremely wet ground. I have a natural spring just below ground level in a portion of my property. This area really never dries out even during dry summer months so I figured it would be a good location to start with)

I then drove a copper pipe 4ft into the ground, and also a 4ft galvanized iron pipe into the ground. Spacing was only 1ft apart. Various depths of each were used. Voltages = 0.9 to 0.95VDC. Amperages = .020 sustained (again w/ whatever load my meter creating).

I then went back to my 12" copper pipe and used a 1inch diameter galvanized steel pipe, only this time I spaced 30ft apart. This was an interesting one because I still had slightly less than a volt but the amperage was nearly equal to what I had when spaced only 1ft apart.

OK, being new to all of this I have millions of questions.

1) Is this really just a weak chemical battery here? I can make batteries in mason jars using water electrolytes that seem to perform in similar fashion.

2) I have read the Stubblefield patent and would like to build one of these.
       a. I have a 10.5" steel cap screw w/ 0.5" diameter.
       b. I am not sure what AWG wire sizes to use for copper or iron.
       c. Because the copper is insulated and only iron core + wire exposed,
           this does not seem like a standard battery having electro-chemical
           potentials. Is this right?
       d. Iron core seems magnetized. Thus I would assume a current in the
           copper windings. Is this right?
       e. I am familiar with copper windings moving through a magnetic field and
           thus moving electrons, how does this cell move electrons while remaining
           stationary?
       f. I need help in understanding the possible uses of secondary coil. This coil
          looks like it uses a thinner AWG copper wire than primary coil copper/iron.
          I am assuming that this wire is of the insulated variety.
       g. Patent states that insulated iron wire may be used. What impact does this
          have on performance.

3) Has anyone tried making a Diekmann configuration? In reading about it, I am reminded of the spiral wound batteries I used to make. We did them in a Mercuric Oxide-Cadmium chemistry. Many lithium batteries like 2/3A up to AA size use the same construction.The extremely high surface area really helped discharge performance under heavy loads.

I have seen information on copper/aluminum variations that are deemed earth batteries. They remind me of capacitors. It would seem that they could hold a lot of energy. Do they really utilize underground energy or are they just electrolytic/electro-potential batteries?

My main interest is constructing something that catches naturally occuring energy in the ground and uses it for something useful. Like lots of LED lights! I have no idea what the best earth system is for this sort of thing, or even how to build one correctly. Oxidation based systems not really what I am looking for... Earth currents yes!

I have setup a new pipe scheme based on trees being better. I happen to have a 180ft line of Blue Spruce Trees running north-south on my property. The trees are only small, perhaps 4ft high right now. There are 20 of them. My copper pipe is to the north directly under one of these trees. My galvanized pipe is to the south right under this tree. Both pipes 1" diameter and only 1ft deep. I have to get 200ft of wire and will report any measurements I get from this. Soil through this stretch = hard red clay.

On a side note, in reading Bedini information, there appeared to be a plant growth side effect to these underground energy systems. I have come accross this before and have seen people build strange collectors that get buried into ground. I used to think it was hocus pocus but in reading about earth batteries and underground energy, it looks like the real deal, especially with a non-agricultural person like Bedini making note of it. I am very-very interested in this because making my pastures recover faster after cattle grazing would greatly help my operation.

Any and all help/education much appreciated!!!!!

On another side note (off topic) has anyone investigated using capacitors as an aid to wind generator operation at super low wind speeds? I know there isn't a whole lot of energy possible at low wind velocities (in smaller generaltors) but something is better than nothing!

[jeanna]

Hello,
... I do have 7 years experience in the battery industry however.

Welcome MW383,
Your battery experience will be very helpful here, I expect.

...

OK, being new to all of this I have millions of questions.

1) Is this really just a weak chemical battery here? I can make batteries in mason jars using water electrolytes that seem to perform in similar fashion.

These don't seem to lose anything over time as the mason jar equivalent always does.

We used copper for both electrodes and found a voltage which changed daily too.

I think all of us think this is about magnetic earth currents.

2) I have read the Stubblefield patent and would like to build one of these.
       a. I have a 10.5" steel cap screw w/ 0.5" diameter.
       b. I am not sure what AWG wire sizes to use for copper or iron.
       c. Because the copper is insulated and only iron core + wire exposed,
           this does not seem like a standard battery having electro-chemical
           potentials. Is this right?

We experimented with all these things too and never found much difference that we could quantify.
The copper and iron are insulated from each other.
I think NS thought there was an advantage in leaving the iron uncovered.
     

d. Iron core seems magnetized. Thus I would assume a current in the
           copper windings. Is this right?
       e. I am familiar with copper windings moving through a magnetic field and
           thus moving electrons, how does this cell move electrons while remaining
           stationary?

It is the changing magnetic currents that cause the electricity to flow. That is the theory. That is happening all the time around the earth. You just need to find the right place or something...

This item s very complex induction coil and magnetic radio receiver and also a tiny bit a galvanic battery.
NS was forced by the patent office to call this a battery when he really wanted to call it an inductor and a couple of other things.
     

f. I need help in understanding the possible uses of secondary coil. This coil
          looks like it uses a thinner AWG copper wire than primary coil copper/iron.
          I am assuming that this wire is of the insulated variety.

I believe I am still the only person to get any result from a secondary and I did not get it from the earth. I stuck a NS generator into a joule thief circuit and also held one up near to a joule thief and in both cases I got voltage off the secondary.

You need a LOT of mag wire to make the secondary. I stuck a spool of red mag wire from radio shack around the one in the joule thief circuit and got fair results.

.....
My main interest is constructing something that catches naturally occurring energy in the ground and uses it for something useful. Like lots of LED lights! I have no idea what the best earth system is for this sort of thing, or even how to build one correctly. Oxidation based systems not really what I am looking for... Earth currents yes!

You have a lot of company here.

...

wind generators have their own area here. I bet you will get more expert answers by asking there.

jeanna

[MW383]

jeanna,

thank you very much for your kind reply. i have been studying this patent for a bit now and make the following observations.

1) assuming you start each copper and iron wiring using terminals marked as 10 on patent, you would make your first layer downward (in picture), 2nd layer wound upward, 3rd layer back downward, 4th layer back upward, and 5th layer back down again. Thus the 5 and 6 terminals would be on the opposite side of the coil from terminals 10. The diagram not clear in exactly how 5 and 6 are brought back up to same side as the 10's. Does this mean anything? I do not know.

2) diagram shows alternating copper and iron winding pattern within a layer. diagram also shows that all coppers and all irons line up through subsequent layers.

text says to wind this alternating way in each coil or layer. what is coil? what is layer? earlier in the description of item 4; coil body compactly formed by closely wound coils. what I am getting at here is that it may be useful to wind the multi-layerd coils so that not only do they alternate copper-iron within a coil of same layer BUT ALSO alternating copper-iron between the layers themsleves.

i see two benefits for this. 1=since this is a totally wet cell (assuming insulation on copper wire was water permeable cotton - then electrochemically it is better to have more direct electrolytic pathways between the anode and cathode. by alternating copper-iron in each direction this could be achieved. the diagram does not show this. 2=i read somewhere that when winding copper coils, it is sometimes useful to wild wind. this 2 directional plan would somewhat accomplish this.

3) this is a real sneaky design in that the primary coils (that seem to operate as an electromagent in relation to iron core), and also the voltaic couple generating the required current. So one set of wire length does both functions thus keeping total resistance at a minimal. looking at other earth batteries - they cannot generate current AND create an electromagnetic field at the same time thus making SB battery sneaky.

4) from a battery perspective, i would consider this a high surface area design. higher surface areas (anode and cathode) will improve battery's current performance. So whatever Iron and Copper produce in voltage (i measure 0.8 on simple constructions), amperage should be real good in the SB.

5) it is uncertain what galvonic activity takes place between copper wires and the central iron core. i would expect there to be some voltage/current between iron core and either copper lead 5 or copper lead 10.

6) being able to connect 5 and 6 to not only flow current but to also energize magnetic field is decidedly convenient. (one switch only)

7) i am assuming that a commonly available wire guage at the time is about equivelent to our modern AWG14 (.064" diameter). if this is true and there is some accuracy in drawing scale of figure 3, then both copper and iron wires are of the same guage.

5) again, assuming accuracy of drawing scale in figure 3, then iron core is about 3 times the thickness of primary coil wires. that would only be 0.18" diameter for the iron core. this is pretty damn small and would make wrapping 14ga wire a real chore.

i am not certain what relationships exist between magnetic field created by coil and the dimensions of the iron core. i am assuming that the more magnetic the core gets, the better. can you confirm?

6) i wonder about the iron core itself. a bolt is nice and convenient but would using smaller iron rods bundled together be more useful? Such rods would each be coated thus electrically isolating them from one another. i only mention this because many motor projects I have seen that employ coils around iron, all seem to use the many rods approach.

7) in reading this forum, it seems like the 2nd coil is inductively activated. So collapse of the primary coil inductively transfers energy to the secondary coil. About the only way for this to work is to cycle primary coil on and off. i looked at various antique medical patents and there is this same induction coil scheme present (only its primary coil is externally powered). in fact, i wonder if they really differ in the modern day. anyway, the old devices simply had a hand turned mechanism that opened/broke the contacts of the primary coil. so how did Stubblefield do this? was it an above ground device of sorts.

i wonder if something could be construced by using a modern magnetic reed switch. they are dandy little devices i have used in commercial appliance designs i have done. basically if you get them near a magnetic field the contacts close. pull the magnetic field away and the contacts open. they are rated to jillions of cycles so would last a long time...

or, is there some electronic oscillating type circuit that would do the same thing? I suppose it would have to be tuned to the timing required to properly energize the SB primary coil.

in constructing crude electromagnets at my desk using 1.5V alkaline cells to power up a coil, battery achieved great heat due to an essential dead short. i must admit that I never guessed an AA battery powering a tightly wound copper coil over 12"  x .500" iron core would have created that much magnetism.

i wonder if the SB battery gets warm during its cyclic operation. if so, then buried in the ground it may have enough heat to avoid freezing of its electrolyte. this is just a guess on my part. this somewhat dependent on what wire guages actually are. super thin stuff I would expect to get hotter than heavy guage materials. this is just another guess.

------------------------------

so at this point i am very intrigued by this battery. it would appear it is exactly like claimed, a long life self regenerating induction coil. i would very much like to build one and would appreciate any input you may have in those regards. wire guages and iron core diameter are my biggest unknowns. once the voltage/current portion of this device working it should be possible to optimize iron core design thus optimizing electromagnetic field. if a set strength and dimensioned electromagnetic field exists, then optimizing secondary coil properties (at least physical size limitations in diameter) should be possible.

thanks again !!!!

i have attached coil configuring spreadsheet i found. maybe it could be useful to the cause.

[jeanna]

i have been studying this patent for a bit now and make the following observations.

1) assuming you start each copper and iron wiring using terminals marked as 10 on patent, you would make your first layer downward (in picture), 2nd layer wound upward, 3rd layer back downward, 4th layer back upward, and 5th layer back down again. Thus the 5 and 6 terminals would be on the opposite side of the coil from terminals 10. The diagram not clear in exactly how 5 and 6 are brought back up to same side as the 10's. Does this mean anything? I do not know.

The patent refers to the pic but the pic cannot be correct. I just made 6 layers in mine so the 5,6 ends and the 10 ends were near each other. BTW we called the ends 5,6 and the beginnings the 10's.

...... what I am getting at here is that it may be useful to wind the multi-layerd coils so that not only do they alternate copper-iron within a coil of same layer BUT ALSO alternating copper-iron between the layers themsleves.

Give it a try.
It is not so easy to wrap the cloth and wind the wire and control getting the wires in an alternating way, but if you are up to it, please try.
I did a lot of these and the only one I was able to control the placement on was the one without galvanic properties. It was telephone copper. It works very well as a joule thief coil bye the way.
I personally believe that NStubblefield (NS) made a kind of joule thief circuit. I believe he used a spark gap inside a silver ball. Others have disagreed. In fact not one of us ever got any results.
I believe I am the closest with the joule thief, but the battery in the ground is only giving 50mv and nothing from the secondary.
The fact is I have never made one with enough secondary wire.
I had 360 turns of both copper and iron wire- combined. I never had enough length of mag wire to step it up.
This research is still going on and I am very glad to have you with us!

...they cannot generate current AND create an electromagnetic field at the same time thus making SB battery sneaky.

yes,
very clever and
very novel!

...amperage should be real good in the SB.

We never found that to be true.
It is a lousy galvanic battery.
It may be that it is not a battery at all.
The patent office would not grant his patent unless he claimed galvanic properties, and I do not know if there was more than just a touch to start the induction coil going.

..

6) being able to connect 5 and 6 to not only flow current but to also energize magnetic field is decidedly convenient. (one switch only)

Yes, I kind of see it looking like a transistor.
7) i am assuming that a commonly available wire guage at the time is about equivelent to our modern AWG14 (.064" diameter). if this is true and there is some accuracy in drawing scale of figure 3, then both copper and iron wires are of the same guage.

5) again, assuming accuracy of drawing scale in figure 3, then iron core is about 3 times the thickness of primary coil wires. that would only be 0.18" diameter for the iron core. this is pretty damn small and would make wrapping 14ga wire a real chore.

yup, it is.
And 19 gauge iron wire which is what my hardware store had is very stiff and very hard to manipulate.

i am not certain what relationships exist between magnetic field created by coil and the dimensions of the iron core. i am assuming that the more magnetic the core gets, the better. can you confirm?

I cannot, but I do agree with you.
He wanted his neighbors to be able to make these with anything on hand and he used a carriage bolt. I am not sure the diameter matters much, except it gets thick really fast with many layers of wire and cloth.
I used silk on some of mine and they remain the best ones.

7) in reading this forum, it seems like the 2nd coil is inductively activated. So collapse of the primary coil inductively transfers energy to the secondary coil. About the only way for this to work is to cycle primary coil on and off....so how did Stubblefield do this? was it an above ground device of sorts.

I have been looking at 2 NS coils separated by 30 feet. I see a lot of pulsing activity coming across the wires as seen through a scope. None is higher than 100mv on my property, but it is free and comes from the magnetic field of the earth.
That field may have been stronger 150 years ago.

....
You can try a reed switch, but I was seeing pulses at 2.4-2.5Mhz in the ground. I think using that is what it was about.
He used the words Normal make and break. We do not know much about that. I noticed in a lecture given by Tesla in 1892 that he said, "take an ordinary induction coil..."  This means that it was a commonly used device. We no longer use this in the common way.
I welcome your input.

in constructing crude electromagnets at my desk using 1.5V alkaline cells to power up a coil, battery achieved great heat due to an essential dead short. i must admit that I never guessed an AA battery powering a tightly wound copper coil over 12"  x .500" iron core would have created that much magnetism.

Nice.
I found a lot of altered compass activity after it was wound.

...
I never noticed any heat.
He was said to have heated his home from an invention of his and maybe there is a way to do that.

------------------------------

Go ahead and build one or 2.
We never had the answers to gauge.
I got my best results with annealed black wire and copper wire which I covered in silk. The silk is very thin and this may be a good reason for its use, but cotton is easy to get. I recommend thin cotton.
Protonmom used a fabric used for lining clothing and may be just fine.


Please make a few and take pix and report your results.

thank you,

jeanna

[Pirate88179]

I agree with Jeanna.  Try some and see.  I never attempted a secondary.  I did manage to get almost 1/2 amp out of my larger one but, in the real scheme of things, it was still a very small coil.

I think Jeanna is also correct about the amount of wire on a secondary.  I think he used a bunch.  Check out the work Kapanadze has been doing with his replications where he uses a spark gap, inductors, Tesla and Stubblefield to get over 100kw from the earth.

Jeanna was always curious back in those days about the term "make and break" and, as she has said, we now use a transistor to do that but back then, a spark gap was a simple make and break system and I agree that this was what NS meant.  Kapanadze uses one to great effect.  Watch the videos on that topic and see what can be done.  He can run a house from his set-up easily.

As Jeanna said, nice to have your input.

Bill