Meyer's WFC concept analysed

[HeairBear]

Excellent post! Your tests will confirm most of what you describe as mine did. Using distilled water, I found that even at 120v, I was getting very little gas and low current consumption. To me, that confirms the ionization process you describe. No catalyst = no electrolysis.

Since we can only go so far with conventional electrolysis, we must find another form of energy transfer to the water such as sound or light. Viktor Schauberger wrote some great volumes about water. His work is invaluable to this field of research.
http://www.cast.uni-linz.ac.at/Department/Publications/Pubs2001/Engl_Haydu.doc

Stan claims to use a frequency range of 20Khz to 50Khz stated here.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:B5jACr0Eob4J:www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/2067735.htm+This+frequency+will+typically+lie+within+the+range+of+from+about+20+KHz+to+about+50+KHz,&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

These frequencies are in the ultrasonic range, which is relevant to this document...
http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/suslick/britannica.html

Further research will show that 20Khz is a common frequency used in devices such as foggers and water purification. You can even buy ultrasonic spark plugs for you car.

When I was a kid, a friend showed me a neat trick using a 5 gallon bucket of water, a stick, and a compass. He would agitate the water with the stick very rapidly causing the compass to go all wacky. He said it was from the water being ionized by the agitation. I never fully understood that till recently.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
I also have been reading over Meyers patents and have come to this understanding.
In normal electrolisis, electricity (in many forms) is added to the water to split it apart.
In the Meyers method, he takes the electricity already binding the hydrogen and oxygen, and takes it away, causing the hydro-oxy to explode in runaway division, as the binding agent has been removed. He capitalizes on the natural law of electrical saturation.
Everything, according to it's nature, has electrical saturation. Meyers found a way to make the electrodes unsaturated, thusly forcing the electricity to release from the water into the electrodes, and maybe also into the air (where it came from in the first place).
Bill

[Farrah Day]

OK

Just to fit the final bit of the water ionisation issue that I was puzzling over above somewhere.

It's strange that this information is not to be found if you look up electrolysis of water, but can be found if you google water ionisation. Apparently when water self-ionises (ie, there is no additional electrolyte compound added), you get the Hydroxyl ion (OH-) and a hydronium ion (H3O+). Obviously this involves a reaction between 2 water molecules so the balanced equation is

2H2O  ----  H3O+ and OH-

As water molecules collide water can self-ionise, so it would follow that self-ionisation can be encouraged by creating movement within the water. This is a reversible reaction, with ions continually reforming as water molecules.

And here's an interesting snippet of info.  When water ionises it is an endothermic reaction (ie, it takes energy from the environment - in the form of heat).  Does this explain why Meyer-type wfc's remain cool whilst still giving of a lot of gas!!  Definitely worthy of further consideration.

[Farrah Day]

Further thoughts.

From some tests I'm undertaking and detailing on my, 'Meyer type WFC - From design and fabrication to test and development' thread, I would like to compound some of my thinking on the processes I believe to be involved.

First thing I can say is that my ss concentric tube design certainly charges up and holds that charge for a certain time when a voltage is applied. This it does whether submerged in water... or not, so I do indeed have a capacitor.  In de-ionised water, and using 31v straight dc with a very small 70mA current flow still provides a voltage of 3.6 volts across the tubes 2 minutes after the power supply has been disconnected.

Even in de-ionised water, at 31 volts, after a time I could visibly see some gases coming off the tubes. When the power supply was disconnected, the cell still appeared to be actively producing gas for a couple of minutes. This I found somewhat surprising as my cell consists of 3 concentic tubes with a solid centre ss cathode spaced 1/4 inch apart, meaning that at 3.6 volts, I only effectively had 1.2 volts across each tube.

I'm now wondering just how much charge my cell will hold, and what will happen once it's limit is reached!

So, if my tubes are steadily charging, the next question has to be: how do I initiate rapid ionisation of the water molecule and hence make use of all these charges?

Will try to keep both threads updated as my testing progresses.

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
Farrah Day wrote "how do I initiate rapid ionisation of the water molecule"?
It is my understanding that the inductors and the transformer typically used in the Meyers circuit
perform that function when the current stops, the field colapses, pulling a drain of -0 volts, and the reaction I described earlier occurs. That is, the electrodes are desaturated, pulling electrons from the water, causing the water to decompose to hydrogen-oxygen.
Bill