Overunity is impossible! (and why you shouldn't care)

[whatisgod]

Can a black hole be considered over unity? A finite source of gravitational energy derived from an exceedingly strong yet not finite source of gravitational energy.

Example= a super massive star collapses and compresses (more mater then possible?) into a single point. The gravity and overall potential energy of the newly formed black hole is greater then the star before it collapsed. If relativity is added into the equation and the plank scale and vacuum energy is connected into this as well you get overunity don?t you?

I despise being an "amateur" cosmologist.   

[FunkyJive]

Hi Whatisgod.

In my own limited cosmological understanding  I don't believe that a black hole can in any way be considered something that represents "Over-Unity", as when a star collapses under its own gravitational field then its gravitational/potential energy merely becomes more concentrated but does not increase by itself. Its actual mass does not increase  - merely its mass density.

Only after a matter of time will particle matter entering the "event horizon" (AKA "point of no return") progressively contribute to the collective mass and thereby increase the gravitational/potential energy contained about the nucleus.

Fortunately there are not so many of them around (yet) so as to cause the universe to collapse uncontrollably inwards, though a few thousand-trillion years might do it   


All the best,

FunkyJive

[z.monkey]

Esotericman,

When you post something with a title like "Overunity is impossible" on a site like this you are just looking for a fight, but you are right.  And no I am not on the "payroll" to debunk "free" energy.  "Free" implies free of cost, but in the case of FE/OU only the energy gain is free of cost, the whole endeavor is rather costly.  How much time have you spent doing experiments?  How much money have you spent gathering materials, building motors and designing circuit boards? How many prototypes have you destroyed in a rage when they don't do what you expect them to do?  How much stress and angst have you accumulated because of "free" energy?

I like to look at this whole mess of free energy and over unity in terms of efficiency.  A system with no resistive or frictional losses is 100% efficient (a very rare occurrence).  Free energy and over unity imply that a system can be more than 100% efficient.  You can be sure if a system is more that 100% efficient that it is gaining energy from an unknown source.  What we are all looking for is that unknown source of energy that causes a system to be inexplicably more than 100% efficient, if, indeed, that can happen.  Then once we identify the unknown source of energy then we will adjust our perceptions of the universe and realize that the system is operating at less that 100% efficiency in light of our new discovery.

Free energy and overunity have to conform to all the same laws that all the other normal energy devices conform to.  The difference being that there are sources of energy that are not completely understood by our limited intellect.  What if I said we could poke a hole in the ground and a gas would come up from the depths of the Earth.  We could use this gas to cook food, and warm our houses, and generate electricity.  Does this seem irrational?  Does this seem feasible?  Is this free energy?  No this is not "free" energy, it is natural gas, and it's pretty close to free.  But we have to pay someone to poke a hole in the ground.  We have to pay someone to lay pipes to our houses.  We have to pay someone to build a gas turbine electrical generator.  We have to pay someone to run electrical wires to our houses.  So, even though the resource may be close to free, we still have to pay for the service to get the energy to our houses.

OK, suppose someone finally figures out how to tap zero point energy.  "Free" energy from the electromagnetic null zone.  Do you suppose that this brilliant scientist who built this exotic technology to extract energy from the vacuum of space will give you his invention for free?  Suppose this scientist invested twenty years of his life working on this technology, the whole while living on a shoestring budget.  So how much money do you think that he would want to sell his zero point machine for?  I would suppose that this zero point machine will be rather expensive. 

I think the bottom line is we all are looking for new energy sources.  We need a source of energy which is perpetual, clean, and universally available.  Something like zero point energy would fit the need perfectly. That is why we do this.

Will the generator be free?  No.
Will the average guy still need a technician to install it in his house?  Yes.
Will the generator be a vulnerable, man made machine which will require service?  Yes.
Will the generator produce CO2, hydrocarbon emissions, or nuclear radiation?  No.
Will the generator violate the law of conservation of energy?  No.
Will the generator require a new understanding of conventional physics?  Yes.

So, Esotericman I can commiserate with you.  There is a general misunderstanding of the term "free" energy.  Everybody wants something for nothing.  Karma will ensure that we get only what we pay for.  Even if that payment is only 20 years of research.  But down the line a ways, I think we will be seeing some really cool technology that the average guy can use, for a fee...

Blessed Be Brother...

[mapsrg]

I think physics has made some bad assumptions in the past like "manned flight is mathmatically impossilble," and continues to to deny the possibility of our imaginations.We basically learn that something cant be done so we dont try.Inventors try and try everything even the improbable.....if they didnt the airplane wouldnt be here....and they are not dissuaded by experts that say the opposite.I think overunity is possible...... and not being too scientific about things gives inventors an edge.Good topic.

[PYRODIN123321]

@z.monkey 
right on.

....guess once you discover overunity its not overunity anymore its an alternative energy source that you don't have a name for and is not explained by known physics..(stating the obvious i guess)