Muller Dynamo

[Dave45]

Separating driver and generator:

Having two drive coil pairs in Romero's generator introduces a lot of complexities as some pointed out (timing, overlapping of on time, how many drive coil pairs, back EMF harvesting, and os on).

Therefore I am thinking about separating the drive mechanism from the generator mechanism (as many others have done, also Romero, in earlier designs).

- The drive mechanism could be a simple DC-motor controlled by pulse-width modulation (just more ore less pulses of the same length per second to keep it simple). The number of pulses per second will define the power consumption of the DC-motor and its torque.

- On the axis of the DC-motor a disk with 8 evenly spaced magnets (a disk like in Romeros`s motor) is placed and rigidly fixed.

- Two stator plates (on each side of the rotating disk) hold 9 pairs of generator coils. Biasing magnets can be placed on the outside of the coils if wanted.

This design will have the same advantages concerning the strange occultations of the generator coil pairs by the magnets (which is supposed to reduce cogging and to give an elevated Voltage when all coil pairs work together). But driving the DC-motor at various speeds and power inputs (by varying the pulses) will be rather simple.

A MOSFET and a NE555 (or a modern equivalent or best a microprocessor) can easily drive the DC-motor and no sensors will be necessary.

Only one variable has to be altered, and this is the number of pulses per second (with a fixed pulse width) driving the DC-motor. One can then monitor the output of the 9 generator coils for an optimum (power fed into the DC-motor versus combined output of the 9 generator coil pairs).

I know, this is not a new idea, but it is much simpler to build than what was discussed and done so far:

- fixing a disk to the shaft of a DC-motor is simpler than mounting a disk with a bearing or two bearings

- no sensors

- it is very simple to drive a DC-motor with pulse width modulation

- true separation of driver and generator

My speculation: The uneven relationship between magnets and generator coil pairs is the "trick" to have a generator which needs less torque to get a certain output than a conventional generator. If this is true, it should not matter which driver one uses. Mixing "driver coils" and "generator coils" around the same rotor will introduce complexities which are hard to analyse and hard to solve and should be avoided in a proof of principle attempt.

I see only two possibilities for OU in the Muller motor:

1.) The uneven relationship between magnets and generator coil pairs is more efficient than any conventional generator (and therefore leads to OU). ---> use any convenient drive

2.) The pulses motor type drive coil pairs are more efficient than conventional motor principles (and therefore lead to OU). --> use any convenient generator

Either 1) or 2) should lead to OU. If both lead to OU one could build a machine which is even more OU.

That 1) and 2) are necessary in the same machine to make it OU is hard to imagine because the two principles seem to be independent from each other (one is a generator principle and the other is a motor principle). And even if 1) and 2) are absolutely necessary one should have two disks, one with the generator coils around it and an other disk with driver coils around it, just to have less interference. The two driver coil pairs seem to hinder a "balanced flow of energy" through the seven generator coil pairs and vice versa in the Romero design. It is also hard to justify why coil pairs 1 and 6 should be drivers and not any other two pairs.

Greetings, Conrad

Here's a vid Im sure youv seen, of the design you are considering, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbF63Gzvtd4

[conradelektro]

Romero himself told us that one could focus on the generator part, and don't spend too much time on the pulsing part. It's somewhere in the first posts if I remember correctly

@tanakat: Thank you for posting Romero's remarks (I overlooked them).

@Dave45: Thank you for posting the video. I am not sure I should believe what the person claims, but that is about what I want to do.

So far I was very confused about what to test and what to build. Now I want to go for the DC-motor idea (which is not my idea, many have tried before).

Attached see a drive circuit with a TI Launch Pad and a DC motor I just happen to have. It all can be run from a 2.4 - 3 Volt power supply (two AAA rechargeable batteries in series).

http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_(MSP-EXP430G2)

Fixing a disk to this DC-motor also solves my "bearings" and "sensor" concerns (no extra bearings, they are in the DC-motor, and no sensors).

Coils salvaged from 12 Volt relays will serve as generator coils, which should be more "identical" than self-wound coils.

I just want to see whether an uneven coil-magnet arrangement really has some advantages as far as reducing cogging and giving a decent output.

For harvesting the electricity from the generator coil pairs I will do as Romero did (independent full bridge rectifiers).

For closing the loop I have no idea yet, we will see, may be a 3 Volt Zener diode to clamp excess voltage down to 3 Volt (instead of the DC-DC converter Romeo used).

It will take some time, but at least I now have a plan (suitable to my skills and the stuff I already have).

Greetings, Conrad

[Tudi]

About hall sensor reaction speed : I'm not sure you need to worry much about it as long as you try to adjust it experimentally and not mathematically. Even if it will have such a lag that the rotor makes 1 full circle without the motor pulsing, you are using the recovery diode to use the motor as generator just as any other coil. There should be specific RPM window this whole device will function "good" for a specific load.
I'm not sure you will have a perfect effect if using an external motor to drive the rotor. Something about the motor driving coil switching to recovery coil might ( just might ) be a key factor also ( at specific frequency ).

[Dave45]

I see no reason not to believe Rod5157 his setup is just a variation of Romero's

[ElektroBaba]

I see only two possibilities for OU in the Muller motor:

1.) The uneven relationship between magnets and generator coil pairs is more efficient than any conventional generator (and therefore leads to OU). ---> use any convenient drive

2.) The pulses motor type drive coil pairs are more efficient than conventional motor principles (and therefore lead to OU). --> use any convenient generator

Either 1) or 2) should lead to OU. If both lead to OU one could build a machine which is even more OU.

[...]
Greetings, Conrad

Conrad,

and maybe 3) an "electrical" SMOT?

See
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg286819#msg286819

Thanks