Muller Dynamo

[konehead]

That is great video Stefan jsut put up of Lidmotor running his air-cored Mullergen on a joule-theif (something like 2V and 5ma input)

Anyways I have great suggestion for Lidmotor - He can make the rotor so it runs on AC sgnal and perhaps the oscillations from the Jule-theif will work like AC signal, then his rotor magnets will "lock-in" much better to the frequency of the Jule Theif, since he says he is running on a frequency already (no hall effect or timign sensor needed)

I have done this AC-fed motor method alot and it is great fun to run a "flat rotor hockey puck magnet" Muller-type machine off the grid or invertor or transformer...
Simply space the rotor magnets so their DIAMETER is the same as the DISTANCE BETWEEN THEM MEASURED EDGE TO EDGE.
Face all magnets same polartiy too. Thats it!!
Lets say you are building a 4-magnet flat-rotor with hockeypuck magnets 20mm wide.
So get some 20mm washers, 8 of them, and space them out in perfect circle with all edges touching.
Take out every-other washer and there will be 4 washers left and that will ibe the spacing of magnet-positioning you would want to to run on AC signal.
A four-magnet motor like this will run at 3600rpn on a 60hz signal (two magnet motor is 1800rpm from 60hz etc etc)
I think right now Lidmotors motor is not 100% locked in to the frequency from his joule thief - it not heitting every magnet with pulse at the perfect timeing as it is now.
The perfect timing is when the edge of magnet is cenetered on the middle of the coil.
The AC pos(pull) and neg(push) phases will ride right on top of the leading, and trialing edges of the magnets...look at my site at his link for more explantion (migh make it mroe confusing actually)
http://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/ac-motors-with-neodimium-magnets

anyways I thinkn Lid motor migh have a looper rif he tries this _ I dont really know him but know iof him alot maybe someone can relay him this info

[konehead]

another thought is I wonder if with AIRCORES, like Lidmotors test-rig, if there is any advantage from having the 8 vs 9 spacing of magnets vs coils -You dont get any lock-up in "rotational"-latch with aircores if for example you have 8 coils and 8 magnets and the rotor spins past like nothign is there at all
all you have to worry about is eddy currents and that isnt too much drag to wrooy about, and it seems like eddy currents with 8 vs 9 would be same resistance to rotation too sinc I dont think eddy current have a "direction" to them, just an electrical-field is manifest and it slows down stuff (not sure however)...
last couple years I have build lots of aircored mullergens with stuff like coil-shorting and pickup/secondary winds around motor coils and some other features and went "away" from the odd vs even classic Mulelr method too,  so I can hook things up in phase and save lots of swtiching and diodes etc.
I dont know though, maybe this is wrong road I went down, and during LOADING, or "a specific resistive" loading of all the coils at once, then there is big advantage with aircores having the odd vs even configurations.
MAYBE this is part of reaons for ROmeroUK's success - you got to do all the coisl at once into load or you dont get the good effect -
So what I am thinking of the "rotational latch" is for sure nearly cancelled, when using cores and the odd vs even, but the "resistive loaded" latch (lenz lug) - is that really cancelled out as well, or are those helper magnets doing it for Romero?? Or is it combination of both?
cant say for sure about anythign until you test it and try it but good test would be if you had a motor like Lidmotors, and put in same niumber of coils as magnets and see what happens if you load all coils the same as compared to 9 coils vs 8 magnets

[d3x0r]

another thought is I wonder if with AIRCORES, like Lidmotors test-rig, if there is any advantage from having the 8 vs 9 spacing of magnets vs coils -You dont get any lock-up in "rotational"-latch with aircores if for example you have 8 coils and 8 magnets and the rotor spins past like nothign is there at all
all you have to worry about is eddy currents and that isnt too much drag to wrooy about, and it seems like eddy currents with 8 vs 9 would be same resistance to rotation too sinc I dont think eddy current have a "direction" to them, just an electrical-field is manifest and it slows down stuff (not sure however)...
last couple years I have build lots of aircored mullergens with stuff like coil-shorting and pickup/secondary winds around motor coils and some other features and went "away" from the odd vs even classic Mulelr method too,  so I can hook things up in phase and save lots of swtiching and diodes etc.
I dont know though, maybe this is wrong road I went down, and during LOADING, or "a specific resistive" loading of all the coils at once, then there is big advantage with aircores having the odd vs even configurations.
MAYBE this is part of reaons for ROmeroUK's success - you got to do all the coisl at once into load or you dont get the good effect -
So what I am thinking of the "rotational latch" is for sure nearly cancelled, when using cores and the odd vs even, but the "resistive loaded" latch (lenz lug) - is that really cancelled out as well, or are those helper magnets doing it for Romero?? Or is it combination of both?
cant say for sure about anythign until you test it and try it but good test would be if you had a motor like Lidmotors, and put in same niumber of coils as magnets and see what happens if you load all coils the same as compared to 9 coils vs 8 magnets

I Agree.

Okay but; the inducted voltage from a solid core in a coil is more than (as measured on an oscilloscope with just a cap connected across the coil) an air core.  And more than the stranded core I first attempted; and I *think* it's more with an opposing magnet, so there is a general saturation of flux to be picked up as the rotor magnet moves - I would really use some magnetic viewing film and get a rough idea of where they intersect; putting a solid core also elongates the field, changing the balance point; plus in the center you do get an entire reversal (I'm using magnets barely larger than my core), so as it reaches the solid core, it is attracted to the core itself; which causes more of a motion of flux, which is really what stimulates a current is moving flux or changing gradients.  But; I have no scientific method to claim this - I just have a coil that I was passing a magnet by with various things with a scope and getting on my most-length singer bobbin coil  250mv p-p passing about 2mm from the coil with... and if the magnet collides with and skids across the core, a very high spike at least double what I get being almost touching.

Oh, I'm also not sure that a specific geometry of coil (tapered as muller had) really matters a whole log, while it would be defined by the enveloping field and the interfering field of the magnetic repulsion... I have one that is tapered, and one end definatly has more effect than the other - but a similarly wound coil with similar lengths just layered over itself picks up as much signal from the magnet.  (mv)...

Okay Then there is this thing called magnetic viscosity - which would be present in a vortex(spin at least) in the end of each core, as its polarity changes N-S and back from the biasing magnet... moreso because the magnet approaches ... hmm maybe that current is counter productive, muller used black sand which certainly wouldn't circulate very well...



I tried to apply a current to my coils to see a magnetic effect to see which were best for the drive coils... but I can't see anything - should be able to use like a resister in parallel with a power supply DC right?

[e2matrix]

OK -- this is possible also; EXPERIMENTS should provide the answer, once we get the device up and running so we can test for the source of the incoming energy.  Fun stuff!

@I-ron -- all I can say is -- I wish we could FIND this guy Rod Clark, so we could ask him about all this.  AND one of his devices for testing!  or at least the plans. 
I think he genuinely needed money in July 2008 when these vids were posted; I do not judge him a fraud at all, but await further data regarding his device and his whereabouts. 
Indeed, this is an interesting device IMO.  Very much like Muller, Watson, Romero, etc...

@JouleSeeker,  Rod Clark phone number is 513-479-0011  as per his craigslist ad for the Mercedes which is dated 5-17-2011.  It would be interesting to have him on here to get a feel for what he had (or has). 

[konehead]

Here is 10yr old video below of Bill Muller lighting up a 300W bulb in left hand, with single coil held in right hand next to the 16 NS-magnet rotor with magnets the size of hockey pucks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2fF9aSEeVo
The coils are sort of "barrel-shaped" I never saw coils like the wedge-shaped 3-layered coils in the pictures on the "neogen motor" link posted here last week - those are a very recent design - I think the reason for that shape is that when you get to very high power being made, and there is very strong attraction-conditon, coils of that shape, being mounted into the coil plates  holding the coils facing against the rotor magnets, would for sure never pull themselves out of their "sockets" especially when the  smaller-diameter side of the wedge-shaped coils is facing the rotor magnets....and it would be easy to drill three differnt diameters holes into the coil-plate material too,  so I think that is what that coil design is about might be something else to it too, like you want the backend of coil to be more powerful than front end so coil-polarity flips over easier - similar to the helper magnets behind cores in Romeouk looper and the way thos magnets behind cores snap cores back to reverse polarity and so the cores will push the magnets away when they pass by, instead of wanting to drag them back as is normal (rotational lenz-lug).
Bill Muller was proud of his amorphous low hysteris blacksand material he used for cores - he said that looking with scope, the voltage and current both peaked at same time, so was no time lag of current after the voltage... so it could change polarities very fast, and also the magnets didnt like to stick to them too bad, because fo the "random polarities" within the black sand itself (cyrsalinne structures encasing ferrites)