Muller Dynamo

[k4zep]

good morning Ben, thanks for the encouragement to continue - directly from your words, of course, but also indirectly from the good work you're doing, testing the different sub-systems and sharing your results with those of us who are 'lagging' 

perhaps i can give you some more encouragement?

after i mentioned yesterday how your test is actually already looped, and having the gen coil in series is not 'obstructing' the motor drive contribution from the PSU, i was considering some of the other comments you've received since then which have effectively tried to 'explain away' what you've observed as some artifact of the PSU operation

the 'meat' of the issue seems to be this: "is the 'boost' you're seeing, due to the PSU - or to the gen coil?"

here's some reference points which might help us interpret what you're seeing - at least to 'ballpark' level:

a)  if you connected a passive component, eg a resistor or a capacitor in place of the gen coil,  what would we expect to see in the voltage drops around the series loop?  well, the voltage polarity across that component would be in OPPOSITION to the PSU - both of those components would show a positive voltage at the PSU end, relative to their motor end connection

the motor would run if the resistor value wasn't too high, and also if the capacitor was a large enough value, then it would allow the motor to run for a while while it charged up, and then the motor would stop

but the important point is that the voltage polarity across these passive components would be in the same sense as the MOTOR not the PSU


b)  ok - that was looking at passive component - now let's consider energy sources...
     when you connect a stack of rechargeable cells together and one cell is considerably more depleted than the others, if you now connect a load (eg a motor) across this stack to make a series loop (similar to your test), what can we expect to see, voltage-wise, in that series loop?  well, usually we'd expect to see all cell voltages have the same polarity (although very different voltages, 'cause one is depleted) and only the load voltage to be in opposite polarity

however, as i'm sure you've experienced, what often happens is that when the cells with a good charge drive current through the depleted cell, that cell acts as an energy SINK not a SOURCE - and since the current is being driven in the opposite direction to that required for a regular charge, that cell starts to get a REVERSE charge (and its voltage can actually 'flip')

the depleted cell does not have sufficient strength of 'supply' to CONTRIBUTE to the total supply and instead it becomes an additional LOAD


c)  same as for (b) except ALL cells now have a good charge - what voltage configuration would we expect to see?  well, in this case ALL cells are SUPPLYING energy to the system, NONE are SINKING energy, so only the load will have its voltage polarity in opposition to the total 'battery' supply - ALL cell voltages will be in the SAME sense


now consider YOUR test - your gen coil o/p - a 'supply' (seen by the PSU just as a cap,  'cause the FWBR 'hides' the gen coil) is in series with another 'supply' (the PSU)

now we see that your test setup matches (c)!

and what is the difference between (c)   - and [(a) or (b)]?

in (c) (and your test) all sources of energy supply are CONTRIBUTING energy to the load - NONE are SINKING energy as part of the total load

this tells us that your gen coil o/p (maintaining a charged cap, same polarity sense as PSU) is a true SOURCE adding to, not a SINK receiving energy from, the PSU o/p


IF your gen coil o/p WAS A SINK - like (a) or (b) then the PSU would drive current through all 4 diodes in the FWBR (2 parallel paths with 2 diodes in each) giving a forward volts drop of approx 1.4V, and the cap would charge up to this voltage - which would have the same polarity sense as the motor - ie. the cap voltage would be in OPPOSITION to your PSU voltage (like the residual charge is before the o/p coil starts generating)

[PS  i'd EXPECT the series current to increase with your 'boost' config - you've increased the supply voltage!!]


sorry this has been a bit involved, but i hope that it encourages you to confirm the value of your test and continue with the good work!!

thanks for doing these tests
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Good morning NP!,

First, thank you for your MOST excellent post.  You put into words and logic EXACTLY what I am seeing here.  The reverse charging of a cell in old NICAD packs (yes I have been flying R/C airplanes for about 55 years!) is a well know problem back in the "old" days.  How two power supplies act in series, whether both are sources ect. EXACTLY how it is. 

When the RPM's are too low, the generator power supply is unable to maintain the charge on the CAP and it discharges and eventually
tries to reverse charge at the rate determined by the overall resistance/reactance and voltage in the motor.  At a certain RPM, this effect changes.  It also appears that if the series resistance (coil)/capacitance and inductance of the GEN loop is in resonance with the repetitive pulses from the wheel, the current and voltage in the loop and hence the voltage increases and not in a linear fashion.

One other thing which I'm sure you understand....In the looped circuit, with both power supplies positive/sourcing to motor, the current draw went up.  DUH. More voltage, more current into the pulsed coils.  There are so many things going on at a DC level and at AC, for all of it to come together, what a challenge.  My hat off to Romero, mother luck and hard work it did take.  I wish I knew the real story behind his implosion because he seems a good fellow. 

Some gifted scientists have the ability with words to express these ideas adequately.  You are one of these folk and I thank you profusely.  I have the gift to see in pictures and by visualization what is going on and the tenacity of a bull dog when I come to solving these problems but find it hard to express these ideas and concepts in words as you do.  Thank you again for this excellent logical analysis!

Now to get to work,

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP

[Tudi]

Just contemplating out of boredom about the possibility of creating a generator based on the action / reaction delay idea. Maybe others were wondering about it without numbers, just sharing them :
speed of light = 299.792.458 m / s or just 3 * 10^8
if i have : 3 cm magnet(rotor) / coil distance + and rotor radius 10 cm + at 2000 RPM
2*pi*R = 2*3.14*10 = 62.8 cm is the exterior length of the rotor ( middle of magnets )
every second at 2000 RPM means that the speed of my magnets is 62.8 * 2000 = 125.6 m / s
while the magnetic field propagate back from coil to magnet ( 3 cm ) it takes 10^-3 / 10^8 seconds = 10^12 seconds to make this distance
the reaction delay gap measured in distance : 125 m / s / 10^12 / s  = 125 mm / 10^6 = 0.000125 mm
Of course the propagation delay in air of the magnetic field is probably not the speed of light. I wonder if some material could be used here to further delay the propagation without reaction to the rotor. Even with that material if i increase the propagation time by 10, even if i increase the RPM 2 times the result is still really small 0.0025 mm. This is in theory acting as a pull force (double effect ) + missing force over this length of the magnet. Let's not forget that this is exactly when the magnet will start inducing in reverse ( peak value ? ).

Seems like there is some reeeeeaaaaly small chance to get something working based on this idea. Share your idea.

Edit 1: ah crap, realized RPM is in minutes, so just divide the bad result by 60

[bolt]

Hello, everyone:
     From Romerouk to demonstrate his devices to today, has more than 40 days, according to the introduction of Romerouk, his device did not think we are now so complex and esoteric, and he introduced a very detailed, from the circuit to have a very detailed structure data.
     We can see from the video presentation can not see you now imagine that complicated, and he should introduce the structure and data fit.
     If so, just follow him with structure and data should be able to Replication the success, because such devices are not very stringent data requirements, even if some errors can have a significant effect, not 100% successful, at least 60% success. But: why now no one can Replication the success? We should seriously think about.

    In my opinion:
1) Romerouk is not fully disclose critical details. There may be some clever tricks that we have not been found.
2) his device untrue!

    In short: whether the first point above, or that the second point, we do not need to add any unnecessary self-imagined ideas and settings. It is just a waste of your time and money! If his unit is real, we explore the energy used in he did not fully disclose the details and skills.

    Again: He's not a lot of people think a certain device so complex, self-imagination of the thoughts and add-on settings will not let you succeed, you can only make even more confused!

You know im going to put these comments from Kone as a signature so every time i post here you read this till it sinks in!

"to get rid of lenz put an AC cap in series making it wokr like bufer/high bypass filter/whatever on one of the lines running to the ammeter which is shorting the coils (its good to use ammeter in place of wire when shorting so you can get idea of amps)

tired differnet series-AC cap sizes - at 10 uf there is 1amp circulating, at 1uf there is 200ma circulating....works like that...best size series AC cap to loop I figure is 4uf since it is 500ma amps going thorugh the "short' and voltage stays same at 18VAC no matter the cap size AND ablsolutemly no added draw to motor with that size cap (4uf) in series.

So I think this does what Mr Bolt reccomends - jam the current out of phase with the voltage so no lugging occurs....i like to think of it as the series-cap simply "absorbs" the backemf that would normally lug the rotor.

anyways at 4uf "tuning" there is absolutely no extra draw or reduced speed  to the motor part of it...when you rectify and put into cap that "18VAC" on meter, it becomes around 30VDC in cap so this is good - so you could say i am getting 500ma approx and 30VDC out from 5 coils, and runnign on 200ma and 22VDC and ablsoutley nothing happens to motor when you short out the coils with that ammeter."

Hello Wake UP and stop going off on wild goose chases like gravity wheels and swamp gas because the answer to making this work is so damn easy if you can be bothered to read.

Already Kone has shown he has  15 watts OUT versus  4.4 watts IN =  COP 3.4.

While not looped yet Kone is improving the COP every day and using all the methods we discussed on here to collect BEMF from driver coils etc which will add to this COP. The higher the COP the easier it is to loop later.

[k4zep]

Ben, 2cents worth.

Battery, 4 coils with 2 as drive and 2 as gen, using armature and brush.  When driving rotor the draw is about 17V 26ma then sort of per your video I hooked the power wire through the gen set with the gen set still in A\C mode (did it backwards first) and when I got it right the draw with no change in RPM went down to 9ma.

The setup I am using is more like the RC motor, not looking for self run I am just using it to look at the Fields and stuff  around the device and to see general behavior from the device.  Nothing of importance to speak off yet,, well except that in SOME conditions the gen set will start to drive my meter crazy but has no real output, and in Some conditions the drive coils will mess with the input current meter really bad (it was showing a 10A charge on meter but nothing was there)

Good work Webby1,

You never find gold unless you dig for it.  Keep at it!!!!

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP

[i_ron]

You know im going to put these comments from Kone as a signature so every time i post here you read this till it sinks in!

"to get rid of lenz put an AC cap in series making it wokr like bufer/high bypass filter/whatever on one of the lines running to the ammeter which is shorting the coils (its good to use ammeter in place of wire when shorting so you can get idea of amps)

tired differnet series-AC cap sizes - at 10 uf there is 1amp circulating, at 1uf there is 200ma circulating....works like that...best size series AC cap to loop I figure is 4uf since it is 500ma amps going thorugh the "short' and voltage stays same at 18VAC no matter the cap size AND ablsolutemly no added draw to motor with that size cap (4uf) in series.

So I think this does what Mr Bolt reccomends - jam the current out of phase with the voltage so no lugging occurs....i like to think of it as the series-cap simply "absorbs" the backemf that would normally lug the rotor.

anyways at 4uf "tuning" there is absolutely no extra draw or reduced speed  to the motor part of it...when you rectify and put into cap that "18VAC" on meter, it becomes around 30VDC in cap so this is good - so you could say i am getting 500ma approx and 30VDC out from 5 coils, and runnign on 200ma and 22VDC and ablsoutley nothing happens to motor when you short out the coils with that ammeter."

Hello Wake UP and stop going off on wild goose chases like gravity wheels and swamp gas because the answer to making this work is so damn easy if you can be bothered to read.

Already Kone has shown he has  15 watts OUT versus  4.4 watts IN =  COP 3.4.

While not looped yet Kone is improving the COP every day and using all the methods we discussed on here to collect BEMF from driver coils etc which will add to this COP. The higher the COP the easier it is to loop later.

Really? let me quote...

its 18VAC on meter for all 5 coils in series, and 3.5A on meter in ACamps if you short the coils out across them with ammeter

This statement is misleading as this is apples and oranges... not watts into a load.

I don't believe correct measurement protocol was observed.

Ron