Muller Dynamo

[mariuscivic]

Hi Mariu
I was looking at your recent bidirecitonal driver circuit with the AC cap and the single diode - and noticed that your have NPN mosfets listed, but the mosfets are placed "positive biased" between the positive of the power supply, and the coil, when NPN mosfets are "supposed" to go between the coil and ground, not the coil and the positive....
I dont knwo if this is mistake or not in your drawing - if it does work like this it is pretty amazing and creative that is for sure.
Also the halleffects have their positive lead go to the source of the mosfet and being an NPN mosfet, that source should connect to ground of halleffect
maybe because of the bidirectional-nature of the mosfets everythign gets flipped around and it is working off the "backwards" energies? I dont know but it looks more crazy the more I look at it....
also, what is the model number of the hall effect yoru are using?
mabye that ozone you smell is the diodes in  mosfets or halls getting toasty as they work backwards??
Mabye the backemf is so strong since it IS "running" off the backemf forces???
Maybe the majority of the power is actually coming from the 9V battery? when you are runing at only 16ma, then mabye the circuit says lets take power from the 9V?...

Hi Konehead
I have checked again and everything is like in the drawing.I dont know much about electronics but works just like this.
I realy dont think that the extra power comes fron the 9V battery since i power the hall with 4xAA 1.2V 650mA recharcable battery. They discharge faster when i connect the 100ohm resistor. If i dont use the 100ohm and use the 10K the batteries lasts a week.The ozone smell is gone couse when high bemf spikes occurs it shorts the turns on my coil. I had two coils that produced ozone and both are damaged(no teflon in there). There is nothing heating in this circuit; the 100 ohm resistor gets a bit warm but only worm; not hot ( that is becouse it shorts the signal from the hall with positive).
The hall sensor comes from a very old computer keyboard ; it has a hall for every button; on it has written BS 057 (B-from Beta) .
Please try this circuit and see how it works.
Today i have made another rotor with 24 NSNS. There is something that i dont quitte understand:
-when the rotor is spining it takes 70mA.
-when i disconnect the hall, the power is cutoff
-in this moment the ampmetter shows ''minus'' 160mA returning curent to the battery and the rpm drops faster (lens)
I never had this result before .

[konehead]

Hi Mariu
OK thanks for the answers...that has to be craziest drive coil circuit in the world....I dont think the halls I have will work so I'll look around for the type you have... I tried tonight to get speed up with AC cap in circuit across drive coil but it didnt work....going to try the 10K and 100ohm trick next time with bidirectionals..
I did check bidirectionals vs regular single mosfet in side-by-side test as drive coils -  and there was 100rpms more with bidirectionals (IRFP460mosfets) and the backemf/recoil that I pull out into DC cap with single diode is very good and this does speed up the motor about 50rpms as the backemf is taken out.
Also played with the magnets behind the cores, and got from with no magnets 380rpm - up to 970rpm....then I messed with it some more and got it up to 1200rpm I think tommorow its going to be at 1500rpm I predict since I jsut got somr new magnets in mail today and I need some more for rest of coils on bottom plate....
still same draw of 100ma and 12V at either 380rpm or 1200rpm...
try magnets behind the cores in your machine now - couldnt hurt -
your new machine looks really good...
Maybe you should  disconnect the halleffect right after the motor pulse - all those magnets must make more power than the drive coil takes in so who knows you might be able to loop it with see-saw circuit where you use the two motor coils seperately:
drive coil A connects to cap A and knocks rotor around, while at same time drive coil B works as generator (hall effect disconnected) and  fills cap B
then drive coil B connects to cap B and knocks rotor around, while at same drive coil A works as generator  coil (now its hall effect disconnected) and so drive coil A fills cap A and so on over and over....

[mariuscivic]

Hi Konehead
One small corection: is not 160mA, is 120mA charging current when disconecting the hall.
This mosfet driving circuit works perfect even if you change the polarity of the driving battery but you must invert the diode too or remove it. It will also spin in the other way too.
I'm still trying to feed the hall from the drive battery but no succes so far.

[Khwartz]

Hi Khwartz

Hi Kone

answers within:

thanks.

ok, so are you ok with that formula:

P = 0.5 * C * E² * f²
with
P: power [Watts, or Joules/second],
C: capacitance [Farad],
E: voltage [Volts],
f: frequency of the charging-discharging cycles [Hertz]?

DK: In very very general terms it is "ok", but you need to use all this in that formula I put up:
1) the farad value of capacitor is divided by two
2) the voltage is not some "straight" voltage figure, but is what the SQUARE of the maximum volts MINUS the SQUARE of the minium volts is, so its the voltage-drop you look at, not just the voltage
3).and also the frequency is the frequency of discharge-events PER SECOND....all this stuff I mention that needs to be included is meant to properly convert JOULES release of capacitor into WATTS .

Ok, so the "practical" formula becomes:

P = 0.5 * C/2 * (Vmax - Vmin)² * f²
with
P: power [Watts = Joules/second],
C: capacitance [Farad],
V: voltage [Volts],
f: frequency of the charging-discharging cycles [Hertz = cycle per second]?

And thanks for precise the difference here in theory and the praxis.

"the power you will have in cap in first place depends upon how quickly the particula size of cap will fill up to whatever voltage you want it to be at..
Understand that. But you didn't answer me about the link I've shared to you about the nice effect one have had while adding a relative big cap in term of voltage, but not in terms of capacitance, to a set of existing cap of lower voltage (6 times less around) but of higher capacitance. While doing this, his motor speeded-up without any power supply while it was not the case before he made this change. His theory on this is that the high voltage cap pumps faster the BEMF and help the set of less voltage but higher capacitance to feed faster, something like that. What do you think? Does it fit with the experiment you had with you replications? and was it what Romero did?

DK: I did not read the link and am not going to either, since I think that author is completely full of crap which is only my personal opinion (I know him and have bad stories about cant be repeated here)

so, I'm confused because I've just posted you the ref of a post of Stephan on his work. I'm sorry, my intention was not to remember a bad story.

but it is true the the UF value of cap is very important in whatever you are doing, especially since small UF value has very little resistance, while big UF has lots of resistance and the resistnace changes too, as the cap fills also...

Very nice to know that too! So would you say that is better to have ten cap of 10 µF in parallel than 1 of 100 µF?

and spikes and oscliiations can be of such huge voltages, (off the scale) that you must always use HV caps and diodes too, even when you dont think they could help

ok.

sinewave peaks at least for coil shorting, is where you want to fill up a cap since you get most voltage in cap and at the fastest rate so you have most  power in cap.

Would verify the theory of having high voltage cap could pump faster the high voltage produced at the peaks?
DK: Its not a matter of pumping "faster" with HV cap, you jsut NEEDthem  to be of a HV level high enough to  contain all the HV stuff...pumping faster is alot to do with the UF value of the capMany of little µF but for largest cumulative capacitance? (and highest voltage?)

- at least in coil shorting...romero didnt use coil shorting remember...he did something different...not sure exaclty what it was and I dont know if he does either! it just worked...

I do remember his vids, I've seen several times, but I didn't the details of what he did!   

the "zero line" they talk about can be two things - the zero point of current, or the zero point of voltage,

Do you mean that current-phase in not late to voltage phase, while a out-put of coil is concerned?  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif) I mean you look to say the nodes are in same phase... what says the scope usually?DK: the zero points and peaks of voltage and current are not "usually" in the "same place" and the current-shape is not "usually" going to resemble exactly the voltage shape either....depends on so many things what the scope-form is going to look like - so I cant say what it is going to look like as depends on cores, magnet strength, postitioning, rpms, caps pulsewidths magnet-coil configuration, what you are doing in first place..... etc etc etc - important thing is to know what it looks like with scope so you can record it for later testing and teaching of what you did to others...

Ok, but normally, the current is late-phased compared to the voltage; isn't it what you read on your scope? (what ever form it could have), but phased with the BEMF? and when current is shifted of 90° we are even supposed to have no "active power" but only "VAR"?

  as seen on a scope  -  the zero-point will be the point exactly in between the pos peak and neg peak if thinking voltage with typical AC sinewave as an example....

Looks logic, but what about the current-zero-point, is that really same time? wouldn't depend on the Henry value of the coil and even of the value of the cap which is shorten with when charging stage?

DK: the "zero point" with the usual-looking AC sinewave CURRENT is actually same thing - right at midpoint between pos peak and neg peak but if DC, not AC , then its wherever zero current is on scope.

Yes, of course, I didn't express myself well enough, sorry. I mean compare to "zero-point" of the voltage curve on the scope. Needs so to have both on scope to read the possibility of the phase-shifting...

Zero point with either current or voltage is. is just where the scope reads zero there - no big deal really about it - some make "zero point" to mean something special and mysterious but to me that is all it means...but it is special to time things properly, using the zero-point as reference that is for sure.

Very understand that.

When you create oscillations/reinging with a coil short, or a spark gap, then you make another mini-AC sinewave of oscillaitons, also with their own peaks and zero points to consider in sort of a hyper-frequency....tapping into that is where you get to exponential power increase - this is what Ismael Aviso does in his MEG and other techs....

Thanks to precise that Kone (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
Would you say it's like in my attachment?

DK: I dont know where this attachment is...

It was supposed to be with the post! lol I'll try again; it's supposed to be a link. (I've checked, that attachment is just here below "MULLER_DYNAMO 120128-1416...")

[konehead]

Hi Khwartz
You got the cap discharge formula wrong.
its;
Farad size of cap / 2
X
(max voltage before discharge SQUARED)   MINUS  (minumum voltage in cap SQUARED)
this is what you got wrong - you need to square them FIRST, before subtracting the minimum from the maximum voltage.
X
discharge events PER SECOND = WATTS
that attachment doesnt really have any meaning as far as the way to do peak coil shorting, since you load caps first, with NO RESISTANCE from the coil-shrot ringing, then hit load with caps when caps are disconnected from the coils,,,so coils NEVER see any resistance, except for the cap's resistance itself,  the swtiching resistance, and the diode's resistance.
The only time you "see" any current is when caps finally hit load... - there are two seperate events - 1; fill cap and  2; discharge cap.....filling cap has no resitance in fact it can be a "resonate condition" with right size cap too (!!) ...so you arent going to see any "current" on a scope while filling a cap (as long as cap has no resitanc across it)
Where you will see current on a scope is only when cap hits the load - and during this time the coils are disconnected, so it puts all the engineers in a fuddy since they cant do the normal "lump resistive load" to check for power output with resitacne across the cap "all the time"....the engineers  will have to figure the power from the joules-release from the cap into the load...(what that formula is for)

ten 10uf caps are same as one 100uf one really no difference howeve you could do somthign trick like fil caps in series and unload in paralell or vice versa thats somethign to think about...as when in series they are less resistance....