Muller Dynamo

[muzzz]

hi has anyone seen this video from peter lindemann on the design of the muller coils and specifically the core material used , Bill claimed that the black magnetite sand used as a by product of gold mining was better than metglas ,it also shows a good cross section of the windings showing his stepped design.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4NBR0cl0b8

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc,

I found him, he is Eric and his video is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuzSkKlnCzc   

Eric put questions on the unusual increase in inductance on physicsforum.com but the "big boys" answered 'blabla' I think... The only thing I would agree there is to check the inductance increase not only with an L meter but in an oscillator where you can check the frequency decrease when the core is approached to the magnet by an oscilloscope or a frequency meter.  Your earlier oscillator tests can be nicely applied here!

Nevertheless, it is worth reading Eric findings there:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=399801 

So it needs nanocrystaline type (tapewound) cores (he mentioned Finemet in the video) to see the inductance increase. IF you mean the value and reason of mentioning this due to this thread topic, then I need some further explanation from you... IF you mean otherwise, well, it needs much testing...  lol

Yes, thank you, I thought of him too but he showed decrease in inductance, has not shown any increase in L value that goes higher than the magnetless inductance value.

Gyula

Thanks Gyula,

you always come through ... this is exactly what I was referring to.

What made me think of this is because of Richard's post http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg299387#msg299387 of a YouTube video of a generator that has next to no cogging. Link to YT video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nf4OJJuEiQ&feature=email

If we can build a generator that has next to or no cogging, then I quite sure we have OU.

I worked with Thane Heins for some months on his generator coils and I'm quite sure he would have OU if he could of only removed the cogging from his generator coils since when the generator coils were under load or shorted they had no Lenz drag on the prime mover.

To get Thane's effect a coil must be wound with many turns like a high voltage coil. So high Inductance is the main key. Later as Thane experimented with heavier wire he got more current out of his coils but he never got to the point of removing most of the magnet to core cogging. Now if we join or efforts, experience and knowledge we may get to an OU Lenz and Cogg free Generator.

If we use YouTube user llewgnal (Gary) minimal cogging design or maybe just biassing magnets if you think it's just as good. However, the big difference would be that if we use Finemet (nanocrystaline) cores instead of Ferrite since Ferrite has Inductance losses as the magnet approach it we may have a winner!... as the Finemet core may have an Inductance increase as the magnet approaches it as Eric has found. So if we wind the coils like Thane's Lenz free style (high Inductance) then the bonus maybe that we may need much less turns (wire) as the Inductance could be boosted by the Finemet core and magnet combination. In this case we would win big time as the coils would output much more current and have no Lenz effect under load.

What do you think?

Thanks for your time

Luc

[gyulasun]

Hi Luc,

I have never figured out how Thane claimed any gain in output with respect to input power...   
I mean for instance this simply question member teslaalset asked from member Overunityguide here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg299431#msg299431

(member Overunityguide wrote in his first post of his thread he confirmed Thane's accelerating generator which is fine but at what input power price?)

So in case the high impedance coil with its own core is completely removed from the setup, what is the input power and how does it compare to all the other measured data when you place that coil back and check input power when the coil is unshorted and shorted?

If I missed something with Thane's finding in any respect and what worries me is just due to my lack of seeing some relevant data from him, then please try to tell.

Gyula

EDIT:  In the meantime I found Overunityguide's all relevant data on input power when he removed the output coil with its core and he just gave the link to his latest video in which the regenerating acceleration effect is nicely demonstrated above the needed RPM.  As he wrote here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg299270#msg299270 this is not overunity.  The mere placement of the core material with the unloaded coil on it introduces loss and this is not by cogging in his setup but by eddy current loss in his core material I think.

So you think that minimizing the cogging in such setups AND using some tricks like inductance increase etc you could get more output than input.  Well,  all I can say is it would be worth testing it in practice...  Important details like utilizing inductance increase etc is to be figured out.

[gotoluc]

Hi Gyula,

thanks for the reply.

I don't see things the same way as Thane does so I'm not about to try to explain his views on his research.

I personally built my own secure test box to test his findings. I built a thick plywood box with a Lexan window so the induction motor (prime mover) could be brought to the full the 3,300 RPM or so if I wanted. I did not publish my results as I have known Thane for a long time and did not want to cause a dispute.

I would agree that Eddy losses are present but the coil is Lenzless when loaded with a 1 Ohm or less Resistor. Unfortunately at that time I didn't know about biasing magnets, so I didn't test that. I tested with the coil loaded and then with the coil completely removed. There was always a small loss but I contributed it more to the magnet to core drag.

Is there such a loss?.. or is there only Eddy losses that exists when a magnet is attracted to a ferrous core and not 100% repelled?

I was hoping you would mention a little on biasing magnets compared to YouTube user llewgnal's methode.

Thanks for your time and advice

Luc

[gyulasun]

Hi Luc,

Ok on Thane I understand what you meant.
I mentioned the small biasing magnets to member rfmmars with respect to the llewgnal video because he (rfmmars) noticed the inductance decrease as a problem when using biasing magnets against cogging. Most people use Neo magnets for biasing and perhaps the smaller strength from ceramic magnets would just be enough to compensate for the strength differences in the original Neo rotor magnets. Cogging comes from these Neo magnet differences, even if you buy many Neos from the same grade, shape and size, they are never uniform and then the differences in the cores permeabilities add to the differences, hence to cogging.
What I got from the llewgnal video on cogging, he minimized it by choosing the 8 coil pair - 12 magnet combination and used no biasing magnets. I believe that in his setup a smoother rotation could be achieved by compensating the strength differences of the rotor magnets with attaching small ceramic magnets on the outside end of the cores and individually adjust the distance between the core and ceramic magnet by non magnetic spacers of different thicknesses -a long and patience demanding job...
Using the biasing magnets can have another beneficial effect what Doug Konzen calls regauging, see this on his site:
https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/re-guaging-magnets-in-dc-pulse-motors

I do not think a direct loss in the output electric power comes from cogging, it may cause quicker mechanical wear for the ball bearings.
Eddy current induced in the core does cause loss in the output, this is why core material is important, bolts or non-laminated iron or steel cores etc are a direct candidate for eddy current losses.

Gyula