Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??

[ask]

Yada

You are beautiful!

[Grimer]

@   Omnibus

> Now, having said that, I treat the H-B hysteresis loop in the usual sense.
> Thus, as far as I can see you?re arbitrarily pronouncing one of the fields
> (say, that of the rotor) as the H-field, that is, the field causing the
> magnetization of the other part (respectively, the stator) and you are
> studying the created B-field in the other part (the stator) as a function
> of that H-field.

Nope. The stator magnets are the H field the more powerful magnets and operating over their reversible linear range. The rotor magnets are the B-field and operating over their non-linear range.

When I use the terms adiabatic and isothermal I am using them as an analogy with the Carnot cycle.
The area inside the BH loop is not heat energy but magnetic field energy. This is accepted and you will find plenty of references to this. If you go round BH loop one way you gain energy, if you go round it the other you loose energy. This must be true of the BH loop as it is of the Carnot loop. It is a mathematical necessity. It is nothing to do with the exchange of heat, (thermal energy) with the environment but the exchange of magnetic energy (magnetic "heat") between the H field,  which IS the environment as far as the B field magnets (the rotor magnets) are concerned, and the B field.

The loop in the limit must comprise two elements, a quasi-isothermal (note the word quasi) and a quasi-adiabatic) slope. In fact the curve is continuous between the two, more quasi-isothermal at one end and more quasi-adiabatic at the other.

> Thus, I don?t see at all how this picture would explain the central issue
> here?the production of excess energy.

Evidently.

It may help you to read the relevant threads on the Steorn forum,

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60285&page=1#Item_1

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=60271&page=1#Item_1

[Omnibus]

@Grimer,

Let's start from the beginning. The H-B loop you refer to isn't the usually observed H-B loop which relates an external H field producing the B field in the permanent magnets, correct? The permanent magnets we use are already made, energy has been spent to produce them and so on. The H-B field which you have in mind is something different--you arbitrarily (I understand it's stronger but still that's an arbitrary choice) choose the field of the stators to be the H field, an H field other than the H field that produced the permanent magnetism in the rotor magnet, and this H field causes some B field in the rotors other than the B field which is already there to begin with because these are permanent magnets from the get go, correct? Let's establish this difference first and then go from there.

[Yadaraf]

Yada

You are beautiful!

ask ,

Thanks.  If you build the Lego device you will most definitely have fun trying things out.  Playing around with the oscillating stator is most fun -- especially adding Neos to it, and moving it away from the rotor.  You can find tiny circular Neos at an educational store in your city.  They are from Dowling Magnets.

I hope some kids start playing with the Lego WhipMag, because one of them might stumble into something interesting. In any event, they will have fun studying magnetism.

Lastly, I have immediate access to Lego parts -- $8 per pound -- but there are eBay-like sites where you can buy parts.  At the store, a pack of eight Lego magnets costs $8 (two packs required), the Lego base costs $10, the fun of playing with your own WhipMag instead of just reading about it -- priceless.   

... BrinckLink.com : http://www.brinklink.com

... BrickShelf.com:  http://www.brickshelf.com


Cheers,   

Yada..
.

[Yadaraf]

...
(NOTE:  I seem to be talking to myself on this matter.     Anyone's comment is welcome.)

CSI Yadaraf on the scene.

Cheers,   

Yada..
.

Well done Yadaraf.  CSI indeed. 

Following one of your references I found the following excerpt:

==============================================================
http://www.memagazine.org/mepower01/5thharm/5thharm.html

For the fifth harmonic of the incoming current, 300 electrical degrees separate the pole/phase groups, Bourne said. That's five times the separation of the fundamental phases. But 300 degrees is really minus 60 degrees for a periodic function, Bourne explained.

So adjacent phases of the fundamental and the harmonic frequencies are exactly opposite. For a three-phase machine, that means that the fifth harmonic creates a field of the same number of poles as the fundamental, but with a negative phase sequence, Bourne said. And that field rotates counter to the fundamental, at five times the speed.
==============================================================

In January on Fizzx.com I wrote:

==============================================================
I believe that AGW stator rotation is the point where power being consumed becomes power being gained.

If my belief is correct it follows that anyone who achieves AGW has in fact managed to draw power from the magnetic potential, the magnetic pressure of the environment.

Of course merely achieving AGW will not guarantee the kind of continuous running that Alan has shown us.

To achieve continuous running the power input has to be greater than the power output, obviously; has to be greater in other words that the losses due to windage (air resistance), friction in the bearings, eddy currents and any other losses I haven't thought of.

If the onset of AGW does mark the point at which power is being obtained from the environment then there should be a change in the slowdown of the central rotor.
==============================================================

This move to the fifth harmonic seems to be the key to reversing the travel around the BH loop from the refrigeration cycle already well understood to the power cycle which Steorn have been attempting to harness.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/frank260332/AlsetalokinPowerBHloop.jpg

Grimer,

Welcome, first of all.

At this point I'm making observations on what I consider to be objective information -- the audio in Al's video.  Sadly, I don't think we have much objective information on Al's rig -- there seems to be confusion on parts, design, etc.  I'm taking a reverse-engineering approach with the audio data:  characterize what Al's machine sounded like and apply engineering principles to achieve the same sound.

Therefore I can say only that I "observed" a fifth harmonic (or subharmonic), but I can't say that it helped or hindered the device.  We know that Al's device ran with the phenomenon and it might have run better without it.  Who can say?

I think it's interesting to note that the fifth harmonic is a function of 360 degree geometry (e.g. Als' rotor).

Q:  How do think B-H curve is affected by the fifth?

Cheers,   

Yada..
.