Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[aether22]

Do you understand the relationship between the resistance and the inductive reactance of the coil, and the role each plays in phase angle. ?
The amplitude of the voltage in a coil has no direct relationship to the phase angle between the voltage and current.

I think I may be guilty of assuming your argument is much the same as Thanes argument that the self inductance of a HV coil is higher and that stops current from flowing and hence I could use similar arguments). (I should say enough current from flowing to deliver an equivalent power)

No, instead why don't you explain to me why a HV coil with it's greater impedance will have a different phase?

[hoptoad]

I think I may be guilty of assuming your argument is much the same as Thanes argument that the self inductance of a HV coil is higher and that stops current from flowing and hence I could use similar arguments). (I should say enough current from flowing to deliver an equivalent power)

No, instead why don't you explain to me why a HV coil with it's greater impedance will have a different phase?

It will very likely have a greater Inductive Reactance X_L proportional to its Resistance R, even though the Resistance R will be greater than that of the HC coil. If so, the phase angle of the Impedance Z will be greater. If the proportion is less, then the phase angle will be less.
In any event, the proportion will not be the same, and therefore the angle will differ.


Z being the square root of the sum of X_L squared and R squared. (simplified)
I've ignored the Xc component - the capacitive reactance caused by the coil winding capacitance, but it is also represented in the full equation in the phasor diagram shown below.

In both coils, without an external resistive load (short circuited instead), the only Resistance R, is the internal resistance of the coil/s. At these relatively low frequencies (up to few hundred Hz) , the value of resistance will remain largely unchanged (stable) with any increases in frequency, but the X_L will increase with frequency, and so will the phase angle of Z as a result.

When using an external incrementally variable resistive load, you will see an increase in resistance (less load) leads to angle decrease and deceleration, and a decrease in resistance (more load) leads to angle increase and acceleration.

Note that it is the proportion of the X_L and R which is important to the final value of the phase angle.
The actual value of Z is not the primary consideration. The acceleration effect will occur in lower impedance coils when the proportion of X_L and R creates the necessary threshold phase angle.

See phasor diagram attached.    Increase X_L - angle increases, decrease X_L - angle decreases.

[hoptoad]

P.S.
It is not impossible for both the HV and HC coils to have the same phase angle, but the huge difference in coil parameters, e.g. guage, number of turns and layers, (resistance and inductance) etc, create very high odds against that coincidence occuring.

Cheers   KneeDeep 

[aether22]

It will very likely have a greater Inductive Reactance X_L proportional to its Resistance R, even though the Resistance R will be greater than that of the HC coil. If so, the phase angle of the Impedance Z will be greater. If the proportion is less, then the phase angle will be less.
In any event, the proportion will not be the same, and therefore the angle will differ.

I do not see why the inductive reluctance (I like the term 'self inductance' more but anyway) is going to outpace the increase of resistance, but anyway I agree that by having less resistance relative to it's inductive reactance will use less of the energy and move the phase closer to 90 deg.

Z being the square root of the sum of X_L squared and R squared. (simplified)
I've ignored the Xc component - the capacitive reactance caused by the coil winding capacitance, but it is also represented in the full equation in the phasor diagram shown below.

In both coils, without an external resistive load (short circuited instead), the only Resistance R, is the internal resistance of the coil/s. At these relatively low frequencies (up to few hundred Hz) , the value of resistance will remain largely unchanged (stable) with any increases in frequency, but the X_L will increase with frequency, and so will the phase angle of Z as a result.

Agreed.

When using an external incrementally variable resistive load, you will see an increase in resistance (less load) leads to angle decrease and deceleration, and a decrease in resistance (more load) leads to angle increase and acceleration.

I have already written posts about this saying the same things but anyway...

Note that it is the proportion of the X_L and R which is important to the final value of the phase angle.
The actual value of Z is not the primary consideration. The acceleration effect will occur in lower impedance coils when the proportion of X_L and R creates the necessary threshold phase angle.

See phasor diagram attached.    Increase X_L - angle increases, decrease X_L - angle decreases.

You really failed to answer my question, if you double the number of turns both the inductance and resistance will be 4 times greater and the phase will be the same.

[CRANKYpants]

ALSO WORTH CONSIDERING IS COIL CAPACITANCE IN THE HV WINDINGS AND HOW THAT MIGHT AFFECT THE PERFORMANCE WITH RESPECT TO CREATING A RESONANCE EFFECT.

ALSO WOULD COIL CAPACITANCE AND INDUCTANCE BE IN SERIES OR PARALLEL AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A CAPACITOR DISCHARGES THROUGH AN INDUCTOR?

WHAT IF THE COIL CAPACITANCE DELAYED THE COILS INDUCED VOLTAGE JUST ENOUGH TO CREATE THE LENZ REQUIRED MAGNETIC FIELD WHEN THE MAGNET WAS RECEDING FROM THE COIL RATHER THAN APPROACHING? (THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY FAVOURITE POSSIBILITY - SINCE I CAN "SEE" IT HAPPENING).

SOMEONE TELL ME WHY THIS IS NOT PAUSIBLE.

T