Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[OilBarren]

i like your comic Thane
lol
i can just keep cranknmout    if you all like ...... yes another busy day lol 
ist
+5 more 2day     i just love what i do
isteam!!

WILLIAM - YOU ARE OFF YOUR MEDS AGAIN DUDE !

[aether22]

I'm a big fan of simple, but I recognize the problems with this method as was referenced by comments above. To counter those issues we could build a "super simple" test of total energy - run the device with a purely mechanical nonmagnetic light load ex. a simple string winder -  place a wooden spool against the motor wheel with a length of string while housed in the "apparatus" using a carefully measured constant amount of energy (hopefully a small battery pack for consistency)... and measure how much string was rolled up. Then remove the motor from the apparatus and run the same test. If the spool rolls more string it is more efficient, if not it is less. This should avoid all of the issues of hysterisis and proper power measurement...

IS THIS NOT SIMPLE ENOUGH?
THIS ACTUAL TEST DATA FROM THE OVERUNITY DEMO AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY FOR LUC AND STEVE.

TEST #1 = NO LOAD ? COIL # 2 = 0.92 VOLTS / INPUT = 275 W SYSTEM SPEED = 60 RPM (approx)
TEST # 2 = MAXIMUM LOAD ? COIL # 2 = 177.7 V / INPUT = 200 W SYSTEM SPEED = 1500 RPM (approx)

COIL # 2 IS OPEN IN BOTH  TESTS
AND TEST # 1 IS ALL OPEN CIRCUITED COILS

WHEREAS TEST # 2 ALL THE COILS WERE SHORTED (except # 2)
ALL OTHER COILS EMPLOYED TO DRIVE UP THE SYSTEM RPM

YOU MAY ALSO NOTICE THAT THE INPUT VOLTAGE IN TEST # 1 IS 75.2 VOLTS
IN TEST # 2 THE INPUT VOLTAGE IS 7.2 % V LOWER AND COIL # 2?s OUTPUT VOLTAGE IS 19,215.2 % HIGHER.

SOMETHING IS ACCELERATING THE SYSTEM AND IT AIN'T THE MOTOR.
THE ONLY VARIABLE THAT HAS CHANGED IS CURRENT FLOW IN THE COILS.

Thane

Thane, when you say "something is accelerating but not the motor" do you mean that the back emf getting to the motor is accelerating it (hence it is the motor providing the extra speed but only because of the gen) or do you truly believe that the generator is acting as a motor (or dramatically less of a load somehow) only when there is a magnetic path between the 2?

If so it would seem you are saying that the motor has an effect on the generator, or that both have an effect on each other. or are you just guessing and quite confused?

If you want to not just be guessing them you need some kind of force gauge in the coupling, not sure how best to do it, but if you had say a flexible rubber coupling between the motor and gen a strobe could help stop the action so you can see how much force is there.

Though if you can't get a stable speed a strobe won't help you.


Addition;
Thane, it would be ideal if you had a bifilar coil, that way while shorting one of the coils you can measure the voltage on the other on the same core. (and you can then know for a fact the voltage in the shorted coil not one near it unshorted)

This is relevant because measuring a whole separate coil does not tell you how much power you have.

Another question would be can you measure the short circuit current with a clamp meter?
I would not be shocked if when you do the math doesn't add up and you find it to be less than expected.
It's no reason to be concerned, it just means you have something more valuable than electricity, but it can be turned into electricity. Sorry if that sounds cryptic.

[PulsedPower]

@Aether22

Thane, it would be ideal if you had a bifilar coil, that way while shorting one of the coils you can measure the voltage on the other on the same core. (and you can then know for a fact the voltage in the shorted coil not one near it unshorted)

That is not a bad idea though you could probably get away with only a few turns as long as the turns ratio was known. Another method would be to wrap the coil in insulation and measure how much it heats up in a given run time, apply DC later to calibrate. Average temperature of a coil can be determined quickly by measuring the DC resistance of the coil at a known stable temperature then looking up the temperature coefficient for the resistance of copper to determine the actual temperature. AFAIK transformer manufacturers do it this way.

[OilBarren]

Thane, when you say "something is accelerating but not the motor" do you mean that the back emf getting to the motor is accelerating it (hence it is the motor providing the extra speed but only because of the gen) or do you truly believe that the generator is acting as a motor (or dramatically less of a load somehow) only when there is a magnetic path between the 2?
I AM SAYING THAT THE SYSTEM (WHICH INCLUDES A SALIENT POLE GENERATOR AND A MAGNETICALLY COUPLED INDUCTION MOTOR) ACCELERATES WHEN AN ELECTRICAL LOAD IS APPLIED TO THE GENERATOR.

If so it would seem you are saying that the motor has an effect on the generator, or that both have an effect on each other. or are you just guessing and quite confused?
YES I AM QUITE CONFUSED - I THOUGHT YOU AT LEAST GOT THIS AETHER22?
THE MOTOR HAS AN EFFECT OF TURNING THE GENERATOR ROTOR.
THE LOADED GENERATOR HAS AN EFFECT OF ACCELERATING THE MOTOR WHEN MAGNETICALLY COUPLED.
WE ARE ALSO LOOKING INTO THE POSSIBILITY OF MOTOR ROTOR FLUX INTERACTING WITH THE GENERATOR COILS AS WELL AT THE TIPS OF THE ROTOR.

If you want to not just be guessing them you need some kind of force gauge in the coupling, not sure how best to do it, but if you had say a flexible rubber coupling between the motor and gen a strobe could help stop the action so you can see how much force is there.
I ACCIDENTLY STUCK MY FINGERS IN THE ROTOR AT 1500 RPM ONCE WOULD THAT COUNT?
WE CAN CALL IT A "SCREAM GUAGE"

Addition;
Thane, it would be ideal if you had a bifilar coil, that way while shorting one of the coils you can measure the voltage on the other on the same core. (and you can then know for a fact the voltage in the shorted coil not one near it unshorted) I ALREADY DO THAT WITH MY BI-TOROID COIL IN DEMO 4 DON'T I?

This is relevant because measuring a whole separate coil does not tell you how much power you have.
I DON'T CARE ABOUT POWER! - FIRST YOU GET THE MONEY! - THEN YOU GET THE CHICKS! - THEN YOU GET THE POWER!.

ALL I CARE ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS SHOWING PROOF OF CONCEPT OF HOW THE EFFECTS OF LENZ'S LAW CAN BE REVERSED AND HARNESSED - THEN OF COURSE HARNESSING THE CHICKS LATER ON.

Another question would be can you measure the short circuit current with a clamp meter?
YES WE DID THAT AT KINECTRICS LABS.

I would not be shocked if when you do the math doesn't add up and you find it to be less than expected.
It's no reason to be concerned, I AM CONCERNED - AETHER22 ARE YOU OFF YOUR MEDS AGAIN ALSO?

HOOKING UP SOME LIGHTS TODAY MAY EVEN HAVE SOME PICS TO SHARE SOON.

Thane

[OilBarren]

"SOMETHING IS ACCELERATING THE SYSTEM AND IT AIN'T THE MOTOR.
THE ONLY VARIABLE THAT HAS CHANGED IS CURRENT FLOW IN THE COILS."
Thane

MY APOLOGIES, THIS MAY NOT BE CLEAR - TO CLARIFY:

SOMETHING IS ACCELERATING THE SYSTEM AND IT IS NOT THE MOTOR ALONE (MEANING THE MOTOR AND THE SOURCE INPUT POWER ALONE) BECAUSE WHEN THE GENERATOR ELECTRICAL LOAD IS TAKEN OFF (OPEN CIRCUIT COILS) THE MOTOR IS NOT CAPABLE OF TURNING THE ROTOR AGAINST THE GENERATOR'S COGGING TORQUE.

LUC'S NEXT VIDEO WILL SHOW THE SYSTEM ACCELERATING UNDER LOAD (LIGHTS AGLOW) - MOTOR INPUT = 199 W

THEN THE LIGHTS WILL BE TURNED OFF (NO LOAD - OPEN CIRCUITED GENERATOR) AND THE "SYSTEM" WILL DECELERATE DOWN TO A DEAD STOP EVEN THOUGH THE MOTOR IS DRAWING CLOSE TO  300 W.

Thane