Distance between postive and negative in cells

[Mr Green]

@techartguy

i have seen your drawings and i want to say that i appreciate your idea with introducing a water flow from the bottom of the cell and the bubbler on top. This way you will create a vertical flow which will carries the hydroxy gas to your outlet .

as far as i know (and please if it is someone which has other opinions , please correct me)

1 ) the best material you can use is 316L chemical formula Fe, <0.03% C, 16-18.5% Cr, 10-14% Ni, 2-3% Mo, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, <0.03% S
Grade 316L, the low carbon version of 316 and is immune from sensitisation (grain boundary carbide precipitation). Thus it is extensively used in heavy gauge welded components (over about 6mm). There is commonly no appreciable price difference between 316 and 316L stainless steel.

more info here :  http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=2382

2 ) as close as you have the cathode to the anode or to the neutrals as greater chance to have a better production.( i am using 1,2 mm spacings because i couldn't put them close more than that cause they aren't cut perfectly
from my tests i discover that if you don't have any neutral plates and your voltage in a cell is 2 V (because according to some theories the cell stops increasing the production after you reach 1,24 volts across the electrolyte , so let's say that you put 2 volts because you will have a small voltage
drop due to the material from which the electrodes are made even if they are 316L) you have to put more electrolite (i use KOH) to increase the conductivity. if you will see this formula you will see why are important the spacings

C = (E * A) / d

where
C = capacity
E = permittivity of dielectric
A = area of plates
d = distance betwin the plates

so if you increase the distance betwin the plates you will have to increase the area of your plates or the electrolyte (the last one is easier) in order to have the same capacity of your cell and the same production.

please do it if you need to correct me.

PS one question 4 you : how you will connect all the pipes ?

Go Green !

[techartguy]

Thank you for the very information response, hopefully I can get started now with what you've provided. I'm going to go with the second drawing for the electrode sets with the many smaller tubes. I'm going to get a small circular plate (or make one)  of the 316L stainless and drill holes in it to slide the outer tubes through. Don't know if spot welding them in place will have an effect on the corrosion resistance otherwise that's how they'll be attached. I'll then put either 4 rods through the plate up to a set of brackets at the top for both support and power distribution, or, just stick a lug on the common plate and run a stainless wire up to the top somewhere. As for the inner tubes, I'll put the spacers in to keep it all separated and  I'll spot weld some small lugs on the bottom of each where they stick out of the cell and make my connections there, that's alot of wiring on the thing given each anode will have to be connected. My guess is set of terminal blocks will be good for this as far as organization goes. Though I think I'm going to move the bubbler off the top and increase it's length but keep the same configuration since the flow from the water being pumped in will push the gas/water mix out the top and into the bubbler, just going to need a hose or metal tube for the connection.

[techartguy]

Just as another thought in regards to keeping the space in between a little more bubble free, don't suppose using ultrasonics either in the volume of water in the cell or connecting elements to the anodes themselves would do anything?

[Mr Green]

yeah right,

so as far as i understand you intend to connect all the outer tubes to one circular plate and extend the inner tubes outside the container , right ?

1) outside that will be very good because you reduce the chance to have a current flow betwin the positive and negative but you have to think how you gonna do it and still have a sealed and pressure resistant container (an idea might be welding an and to the inner tube an do a thread or put a nut inside)
2 ) you have to think about fixing the inner tubes as well as fixing the outer tubes  so they can't change their position (i mean not to lean on spacers) you can see here with what problem ZeroFossilFuel had     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ci5OlPlJ68
3) as far as i understand you will have one big connection on outer tubes and many (as many as tubes you have) inner connections ......Question are you gonna connect all your cells in parallel and supply 12V(that you bike does)? - in this case you will build a water heater and it will do same thing that your kettle does or are you gonna supply 2 volts to the hole system (that means building or buying a DC to DC transformer to convert from 12v to2v (additional expenses)....i think that the best think you can do before assembly your generator is to test one of these cells (inner and outer tube) and set up in different range of tensions (volts) and electrolite and you will find out when you have best results and which is the current input (amperes) . you can multiply then with your number of cells and find out an estimated current consumption - you will need to know which is the max current you can draw from your motorbike because you are limited to what the dynamo that you have on bike (sort of alternator) can produce and the battery which there are in a range of 3-30 Ah not more. in my opinion the best way to connect 6 or 7 cells in series (depends on what is your constant tension when engine idling.)
4 ) you said about making the cell taller by removing the bubbler - in my opinion is an good idea because I've notice that the taller that is the generator the quicker that bubbles are going to the surface and brake the others that try to build op on plates(in my case) .

have fun and best luck with your project

and don't forget  Go Green !

[HeairBear]

Your drawing looks very similar to a fellow testers device named H2OPOWER on this forum. Here is a video of one of his setups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJPE6d2R9uo