plate size and power

[mv122]

my current cell is 2 1/2 by 6, 15 plates at 15 amps makes 500 ml in 1:12 . i have not seen any improvement and no decrease in mpg. now i have to material to make one 2 1/2 by 32, 15 plates . my question is will i need to and more power to a cell this big . my motor controller can handle up to 30 amps but the wires get warm at 15 amps .    thanks for any help

[darbee63]

Depends on your spacing, if you have neutral plates and how they are configured.
I like going traditional neg /pos with no neutrals and prefer tubes. But i pay for it in amps.
You can pretty much figure the more surface area more amps when using the traditional neg/pos like I use.

Neutral plates will soften the blow on amperage, but dont push your luck with the a 30 amp pwm controller, It might take a short burst of 30 amps but'll turn to toast rather quickly,  you definately need to get an amp meter and keep the pwm under 15 unless you got a 100 amp rated one:)

[darbee63]

If you've seen no decrease or improvements, I'd double check to see what your production is, is water getting in your hoses? do you have a check valve installed wrong? where is it being injected at?  is your vehicle carbeurated or fuel injected? and if so are you tricking the O2 sensor?

[mv122]

i have checked my production a few times and is always around 1:12 . give or take a few seconds . it is fuel injected . i have a water catcher for a air compressor to catch any water in the line .  the very first cell  i had installed on my truck  boosted my mpg to 24 .but it was only a 44 mile trip before it turned in to a runaway  . i messed those plates up when i cut some to make neutral plates.and did not measure out put on that cell.haven't been able to duplicate those results  . i have amp meter installed and keep the current cell at 15 amps . I'm just wondering  when i build the bigger cell if i need to run it around 20 to 25    amps .   

[darbee63]

More amps will give you more production whether it be tighter spacing, more plates or more electrolyte.
You can pretty much bet the more surface area the more production. But theres a trade-off, what I've found is less amps less production..
It really all depends on where you need or want to be with your current. If you alternator can handle it, and you don't have excessive heat build up dont worry about it.

But runaway temperature and amps seems to be an issue without a PWM, but the PWM has restrictions as well unless you have an industrial size one.
i've come across the same issue on reproduction or the cell not working  with straight tap water. Sometimes just change the water or reverse the leads and instantly it starts working.
Change them back and its as if the cell never stopped working. First I thought well maybe the 0 hardness water was the issue, and it took stirring up leached minerals as an electrolyte to start the conductive process.
But that proved me wrong, so then I blamed it on the PWM straight sine wave, and that seemed to solve some of my problem even though  I dont beleieve it was the sine wave and more a conducting issue. But either way I've found striaght brute force never lets me down, and always produces.
Just remember to keep the PWM well under its rating. But then you have to worry about the runaway effect from leaching iron (which is why you should always use 316)

What is truly disheartening to me are the people showing videos of production and instantly wanting to sell and make money on "their" hydrogen generator. These things are definately not a 1 size fits all MPG saver, Each vehicle has differant O2 sensors, some use 2,3, or 4 wire O2 sensors some use 2  on the exhaust not counting the catalytic convertor.
Some use just the pre and after convertor O2 sensor.
It really all depends on the make and manufacturor of your vehicle.......research,research,research.
You really need to know the open and closed loop paramaters of your vehicles ECM to see what further modifications need to be done. Let alone what it looks at for a priority on the program otherwise anything you do do might be in vain, or actually cause worse gas mileage.
Some manufacturors even kick on the AC in winter to bring up the block temp for combustion purposes. So make sure  even your thermostat is properly sized and hasn't been changed because that'll make a differance on the open/closed loop combustion temperature and what the ECM decides for air/fuel mixture.
and again, find out if you have a wide or narrow band O2 sensor first before even considering altering its signal.
A narrow band will be 0-1v with 1v showing rich and a wide band being 0-5v with 0 being rich.
All this will make a differance on your ODB1 or ODB2 set-up.
Pre 1996 is usually ODB1 after that ODB2, newer model vehicles will have a wide band.

So again......research, research, research.

Hope this helps:)
Darbee63