Test of aluplate<->sand-graphite-tablesalt battery cell

[hartiberlin]

Well, the paste mix is now prety  scratch proof glued onto the surface
after several wettening/ heating processes.

I will next try with a cloth layer between the aluplate and the paste
mix to see, if the current will rise.

Regards, Stefan.

[gast]

Hello Walter,
>> yes I did try prety much al kind of external power AC up to 40Khz and DC also current up to 6 Amp, what is
>> happening is that the cells then work like a capacitor and you can use the amount charged
Intresting. And in such a cell is nothing more than Alu (alloy), sand, graphite and water?
(I don't observed Stefans [and yours] experiment from the very beginning)

What is about the voltage, if you use such a cell as an capacitor? If you charge it for example with 12 Volts, did you get also 12 Volt from the cell after this?
I ask, because if the cell is used in "battery-mode" without charging, then the voltage amounts are very low if I take a look on Stefans results.

>> but no more comes out and the cell does not generate the same amount of power then without the charging.
>> On the contrary if the cells are short circuit at the start up in specific intervalls the cell will perform a much higher
>> and longer lasting output.
Hm, strange behavior.

>> The most importand part is that the alu or alloy is insulated from the graphite in order to
Stefan use an sand/graphite mixture on a sanding alu plate. How can the graphite (in the mix) be insulated from the plate? This is not realy clear to me.

>> to insulate alu you can use a chemical version where on the alu plate is a kind of honey comb oxide created what
>> insulates the plate totally but the graphit will go in to alle the tiny cave's.
I understand correct? The insulation consist of oxidized alu? But how the honey comb structur is build up? Is it a special production process (from the manufacter of the plate) or a self-acting chemical process that causees this structure?


Anyway. I ask myself during reading this topic: Is such a cell a solution for our energy-problems? We talk about 0.4 volts and very low currents. How big must a cell-array be to supply a whole 4 persons household?

Regards, Gast

[Walter Hofmann]

Hi gast,


Hello Walter,
>> yes I did try prety much al kind of external power AC up to 40Khz and DC also current up to 6 Amp, what is
>> happening is that the cells then work like a capacitor and you can use the amount charged
Intresting. And in such a cell is nothing more than Alu (alloy), sand, graphite and water?
(I don't observed Stefans [and yours] experiment from the very beginning)

Walt: we have to make clear that my AG-cells are different then stefans but I did this tests too yes the material used in my tests with alu was graphite and alu no sand.

What is about the voltage, if you use such a cell as an capacitor? If you charge it for example with 12 Volts, did you get also 12 Volt from the cell after this?

Walter: no you should not charge with a higher voltage then 4 volt and then you only get after settling about 1.5 to 2 volt
I ask, because if the cell is used in "battery-mode" without charging, then the voltage amounts are very low if I take a look on Stefans results.

Walter: yes in stefans case till now it is verry low but this comes after my experience from the direct contact between the aluplate and the graphite and also like mentioned before from the contact tips because the tips only pick up fractions

>> but no more comes out and the cell does not generate the same amount of power then without the charging.
>> On the contrary if the cells are short circuit at the start up in specific intervalls the cell will perform a much higher
>> and longer lasting output.
Hm, strange behavior.

>> The most importand part is that the alu or alloy is insulated from the graphite in order to
Stefan use an sand/graphite mixture on a sanding alu plate. How can the graphite (in the mix) be insulated from the plate? This is not realy clear to me.

Walter: in stefans case with the heating it would mean a seperation sheet what can withstand the temperatur

>> to insulate alu you can use a chemical version where on the alu plate is a kind of honey comb oxide created what
>> insulates the plate totally but the graphit will go in to alle the tiny cave's.
I understand correct? The insulation consist of oxidized alu? But how the honey comb structur is build up? Is it a special production process (from the manufacter of the plate) or a self-acting chemical process that causees this structure?

Walter: No you need to do this chemical reaction before you start with the graphite. you can use a weak sulfuric acid and pass a low voltage current thru it positive to alu negative to a piece of lead for about 1 hour. similar procedure is also used for anodizing alu.


Anyway. I ask myself during reading this topic: Is such a cell a solution for our energy-problems? We talk about 0.4 volts and very low currents. How big must a cell-array be to supply a whole 4 persons household?

Walter: I believe this hole scenario is not intend for solving any kind of energy problems the intend on the whole is to have a solution what gives a longtime power source ( up to 100 times then regulaer batteries) for low current application like emergency lighting, small radios, and the whole array of comercial application like beacon, sensor etc.
Maybe one day when people understand that the enourmus waste of power? what we have now and dont need is the real source of the crisis and then it could be developed together with new circuits as a alternate source.
My AG-cells are providing 1.2V open circuit and upt to 2 A short circuit current and I can power as a sample up to 4 white LED's with four of the AG-cells in series up to 2,200 hours continiously. If you wana read more about my cells you can go to the old group archive and read unter walts waterpowerd cells.

Regards, Gast


greetings
walt

[gast]

Walter,

thank you very much for your wide answers by return.

Regards Gast

[hartiberlin]

Gast, I am currently trying to see, if I can get some small power out
of these cells without galvanic action, just as the Hutchinson or
Markus Reid cell use no wet electrolyt and can convert heat
directly to electrical energy.

Regards, Stefan.