I don't want to sound like a jerk...

[silverdragonrs]

i only made it to page 9 but had to stop. the ingorance showed here in this thread is ...... (thinking of the right word)..... horrendous.... Thinking your posts out when you try to descredit something may be wise. (Agreed the same goes for trying to prove but that is not the subject)........ first to everyone who accounts that the gas companies and power companies do this or that...... BULL.... they have a lot of sway but in the end the internet has the power to overcome them and most others. The reason a small overunity device will never meet the market is because if it did it would cause a global economy crisis. I went into detail on this in another thread someplace..... The reason that a large device would reach the market is that people would not be able to build it in their garage... so they would still have to pay for its energy output.. thus keeping the well worked and greased weels of society and economy running.

as to the "overunity can not be achieved" claims. to claim such a broad statement is to show ignorance and lack of faith in man's ability to overcome. what was impossable yesterday is common practice today... and tommorrow todays impossabilities will be possable. Many overunity devices have been created. The output being greater than the "expence" input... (ill come back to this in a second) but many of these devices have not been publicaly announced or produced for one of three reasons...

number one stated in paragraph one...
number two is this... many invertors create many things that they wish the world to share. these inventors finish their work and descide to put it on the net. they post what seems to them a self explaining layout of the design and perhaps some photos or video based on their rescources. (a man building a magnet motor in a garage probably doesnt have a highres cam in his back pocket.) .... most of the time i would guess that the inventor wants to share his work and move on to the next thing... an inventors main interest is the invention.. not teaching it. he has done his part.. and now it is over. he is not interested in proving anything to sceptics. i say this because I would not care to comunicate with sceptics when all they do is doubt my claims and ask me to prove it. just think on this one.. imagine you had just spent months designing something and it worked... now some punk pops out of his momma and starts saying that you faked it.... you gonna argue or just ignore him? so because of sceptics ( not unlike some of you) most of these devices fade away and are never heard of again.

for most devices though it is simply poor presentation that causes lack of reproductablility. in the old days newspaper would not be the best way to publish anything and most any other route was too slow. now its probably due to a lack of planning and such... i have seen many designs (like the torbay motor) that lacked any real plans.. the pattent has the parts in it but lacks a description of how they were made. many inventors are better thinkers than they are planners and presenters.

lets just leave it that way... they do the brainstorming and developing... we further develope and refine it. it works that way and is just more fun for us.

as to the comment earlier about nothing stopped these devices from coming out before oil companies..... well alot has developed since then... back then i am sure that it would have been more dificult to make and publish such a device. also... tesla was (one) of the first of his kind. this area is even still relatively new ground. back before oil companies were so large technology was not very far developed and not refined in any way.

today we find ourselves looking back at some of these pioneers and saying... "man i wish he had todays rescources"

now many of you have the right outlook on things but the wrong tactic. some of you have said that you doubt the validity of these devices.... ok a skeptical point of view is a good point of view.... it helps to weed out the true frauds. but some of you have this mindset and have it in your head that it is your job to convince others of the same thing... this does only one thing. make it so that others become discouraged and nolonger willing to devote their minds to the developement and understanding of these devices. if you are a skeptic good...... but you should not discourage others or attempt to publically discredit them. if a device is a flop then it will show that in due time through experementation.

but a mind that can look at one item from two sides is a valuable tool. to look at something that you believe does not work and say ...... if i did this or chaged that.... it might work.... that is a productive way of thinking. With people like that this group could wield some amazing results is the field of overunity.

now to the people/person who said that the heat from the wind should be concidered in the cost/input. i think you are right .. but not for the reasons that you think you are. the heat from the environment should be concidered because the output of the device would not be the same without it (exsample if the air becomes cool) but in normal cercumstances environmental variables like this do not effect the device. they may put into the device but if are never removed can be concidered free contribution. (exsample. in a magnet motor the magnets could be concidered and environmental contribution since they require no input to power. but since these magnets under normal use do not fade or lose power for VERY long periods of time then they are simply a free energy scource. (excluding finacial input to purchase said magnets)

my point is that there are many such "free" input scources. if the energy from these scources can be used properly then overunity can and will be acheived. the sun is always hot.. the wind always blows... magnets always react... gravity is always present. sometimes these sources are not always strong.. but they are free and always present.

I think this thread is just a good exsample of somebody attempting to discredit something they do not understand.

Thank you and i hope i didn't step on too many toes in my ramblings
danny

[Elvis Oswald]

Danny,

First of all, it's important to make the distinction between 'overunity' and 'free energy.'

Overunity is impossible - and that's per the 'second law', something that is more credible than a 'punk kid who popped out of his mother.'  And it does make sense that energy has to come from a source - one way or another.

Free energy is another story.  Wind power is an example.  It's not overunity to use a windmill to generate electricity... but it is 'free energy.'

People have tinkered with magnets forever and a day.  I have some faith in EEs who design motors and generators - that they have pretty much tapped out on efficiency.  Same goes for transformer design.  However, it may be that new materials or some radical design might enhance generators or transformers... but I have doubts that anyone will acheive overunity... UNLESS, they are tapping into some form of energy that is not being harnessed at this time.  And then, it's not overunity - it's free energy.

There's no doubt that there is more energy in the atmosphere than we can ever use.  It's free - it comes from the sun and is stored between layers of the atmosphere and the ground... and maybe even between the ground and the core.
To think that we have harnessed electricity because we can make it by passing a coil into a magnetic field is wrong.  We should be able to catch it right out of the air.

As for the oil companies... it really doesn't matter whether it's oil or electricity... we're dealing with money.  And money will eliminate competition.
When Tesla invented AC, he was a star.  Westinghouse funded him and they got a product they could control and sell.  But when he started talking about free energy... he lost his funding, was sued out of his lab and equipment, and was later ridiculed and demonized.  Today, every kid knows Edison... and the greatest mind of all times is just a 'cult figure' to the tin-foil hat wearing internet crowd... or so they want people to believe.

You can bet your life on the fact that a free energy device would be bought and shelved to keep it out of the hands of the public.  If you think people won't use their power to maintain their power... you are crazy. 
We see it everyday in Washington.

I have to completely disagree with you on free enrgy causing an economic collapse.  The only collapse would be that Exxon's CEO would not have gotten that $196,000 a day pension he just retired with.
I think that either you are a trust-fund kid, or you have just been beaten down by master for so long that you're a victim of stockholm syndrome.
Following that logic... we should all have air-meters installed on our lungs so we could pay Ken Lay for the air we breath.  Would that create an economic boom?

Honestly.  You need to lose the slave mentality and realize that you can sustain yourself without working for the man and buying from the company store.  The true leaches on society are the men who offer nothing but the inherited wealth and power that their forefathers gained by exploiting others.

[_GonZo_]

Hello _GonZo_,

I totally disagree with you.  The magnets are doing work holding the weight up.   Now the only difference is that the electro magnet can be turned on/off, If there was only a way to turn the permanent magnet on/off.  OH, I forgot, there is a way.

GonZo I really think that you wouldn't believe that this thing worked if you were holding it in your hand.  And I am not the one to convince you.  It is totally not my problem.

No I am not mad or upset with you, I just think this will be my last post to you because I think that you are too smart for your own good and I would never convince you that a permanent magnet does work.  I really think you have been over schooled on the subject.

I can tell you this from alot of hard work, a permanent magnet holds a tremendous amount of power, work, or energy, what ever you want to call it.

And yes I do all of my own machine shop work.  All the test motors was built by me.   Thank you for your nice comments.

Later,,,,,JackH

I never sayd I do not trust you, it is just that I do not understand how can you get out more power out of system that what you put in or it has itself. And I will like to understad.
So please consider your decision about not answering my posts.

A magnet holding a weight in the fridge is not doing a work at that motent and that is for sure, may be I focused on that too much, sorry for it. May be yuo are right and I am a bit over schooled. 
But of course a magnet field can do work becasue you can place material in it and there will be diferent energy potencials depending on the distances, and the streng of the magnetic field and if you let it move form one point to another poin in the field then some work will produced there...

After reading on http://www.keelynet.com/energy/hildenbrand.htm and especially in http://www.cheniere.org/misc/astroboots.htm that explain how to "turn off" a magnetic field from a magnet.
Now what is puzzeling me is why that way of swiching off a magnet is not used in manny other aplications? actually it is a very simple thing. And there is hundreds of aplications for that, not only motors...
If that works that way then I can understand more less how your motors work.
I have tryed to find more info about it and I was not able to, please Jack can you explain us more about it? or where to find more info

[valveman]

It's seems an easy experiment to try.

Get a pernament magnet and some steel, wrap some wire and apply a DC voltage and see if the field changes.

Valveman

[lancaIV]

Dear Jack Hildenbrand(german ancients ?),

You write about the possibily of  the closed cycle/loop system,
so the input-by permanent magnets or with electro-magnets-
is an unimportant part,8W more or less !

You only get a functional closed cycle/loop system when
the electrical output will be higher than the electrical cycle input !
(You shall understand "electrical" not only as current input) 

In the Keelynet-pages you had been in the +50% range,
now you write about a +400% stage,congratulations !

But I have got my doubt about magnet work durability,
and there is a physical difference between work and power !

Would you me guarantee the 1000-years duration,
it would be for my own concept a great help !
But,you are only 61-years old !

Sincerely
            de Lanca

p.s.:A human who helds -hours long-something is doing "labour",
      this differ from the vector/scalar physics and the strong defined
      expressions "work/power(Arbeit/Leistung)" !