I don't want to sound like a jerk...

JackH · May 21, 2006, 04:10:47 PM

Hello Greg & Gregory,

Well I think that you and I do think in the same ways at times. And yes after explaining the power input the way you have, I guess I dont have overunity. By using the power of the permanent magnets along with the electrical input, you could very easley guess that overunity may never be obtained.

However, Most people do not like the Idea of a permanent magnet producing usable power or energy. Most will refuse to beleive it. So to tell them you are using them to operate a motor is like pulling teeth, they just refuse to have any part of it.

The 2 in. dia. permanent magnets in my motor are actually producing over 3/4's or more of the total energy to operate it. The electric energy is producing the rest, so there you have it, my motor in reality is not an overunity motor. Even if this motor is running at over %500 eficicency, actually if you added up the total energy from the magnets along with the electrical energy, it may just be breaking even at %100.

Thanks, Later,,,,JackH

jake · May 22, 2006, 12:07:53 PM

Jack,

I want to repeat my offer to help/validate testing. The only way you are ever going to get skeptics to believe is to demonstrate your motor under controlled testing that is independently verified.

I will come to your facility, you can come to mine, we can meet somewhere in the middle, whatever you want.

Name your conditions. I only want to be able to verify the measurements, calibrate the measuring equipment, etc. to be sure the measurements and calculations are valid. I would also be more than willing to provide a means of connecting a generator to your motor and add the required circuitry to convert the output to the proper levels to drive the motor and self run it.

There is no better way to convince people than to show them.

I am willing to sign non-disclosures or any document you want. I don't want or need to see inside your motors. I don't need to touch your motors. I don't need to be alone with your motors, etc.

JackH · May 22, 2006, 05:46:51 PM

Hello jake,

Jake I fully except your offer, I would rather it took place in your shop, If thats OK with you.

However I do not have the small motor that produced the .021 hp at this time. It has been moved to northern Ohio and placed in a safe deposit box.

I am currently working on a much larger model that will soon be ready for testing, If every thing goes wright. This motor I am hopping will produce around 1/2 to 1 hp, and will be much better for testing along with trying to match a generator to it. I do want to tell you, currently I am working on building the most efficient motor I can build and at this time I am not at all enterested in creating a self running unit. The motor needs to come first. I hope you can see that working in a small machine shop by myself, it takes time to manufacture a motor, no mater what kind it is.

I was very disapointed of the last motor I put togather. It was a two valve motor that I figured would be the best way to go. However I had forgotten a very importent point that metal magnetically saturates at a given point. Well the two valves were producing over 3,000 pound of magnetic pull(gauss). The rotor just was not of the size to handle this amount of gauss. I am currently using some parts from this motor and some new parts to put togather a single valve motor, takes time.

I still have your phone number and will call when the motor is ready for testing. jake I think I asked you before and never got an anwser, What kind of equipment do you have for testing HP from a low RPM motor. Do you have a dino or are you just going to use some kind of torque device. You probably already know that to test HP you need to pull the motor down to a sertan rpm and at the same time messure ft pounds of torque. How do you intend to do this. Also have you got very accurate input power testing equipment. This motor is a DC motor that does not continually use current. You need a meter that will read pulse DC current and give an accurate input watts reading. In order to find out how efficient this motor is we need watts in and watts out.

The place in NC. that one of my share holders wants to have it tested has a test dino, that accually gives you a graff showing input watts and output watts along with HP through the full rpm range of the motor. Can you do this at your shop.

When you get done, what am I going to have to take with me to show others like this message board. It's going to need to be good stuff to prove that a motor is running over %100 efficiency. With all the skeptics around, will they beleive your test methouds.

Later,,,,,JackH

jake · May 22, 2006, 07:22:50 PM

My shop is easier for me as well, but I will do the travelling if it makes it easier for you. I get to your part of the country on a regular basis.

How we test will depend on what size of device we will be testing, which is why I would like to examine your test setup first if possible. I don't currently have a dyno. We have small motors we can backdrive and generate with. We can create a small dyno if the motor is tiny (.021 hp, for example). There are many creative ways we can load the motor to get an idea of how much power the motor is producing. I have all kinds of gizmos around here. I guarantee you we can come up with something. If we don't have it there is a large surplus electronics place in town that will.

We have equipment to collect test data to a computer that we can hook up to monitor input voltage and current if necessary. If your pulses are very short induration (less than milliseconds) I may have to check what sample rate I can do with my current equipment. I have an oscilloscope here, but it doesn't have storage capability, so I would like to use our computer based data collection stuff. If the signals are too fast we will use the scope and do digital pictures. We can collect the data and integrate the input power based on the pulse durations and magnitudes.

If your dyno is of appropriate size for your motors we can use it and calibrate it to be sure it is correct. What you described in another post sounds perfectly valid for testing the output power. All we have to do is verify the scale, etc. Depending on the range required, I have a scale that is good for about 2 grams resolution up to about 500 grams. We have other larger scales, but if the motor is very small I don't think we will have to go bigger.

I also have machining capacity. I have a 3 axis CNC mill that is empty a lot of the time. I can only handle non-ferrous metals and plastics, however. If you have complex aluminum milling or plastic part that needs done I might be able to help when I have time.

>>The place in NC. that one of my share holders wants to have it tested has a test dino, that accually gives you a graff showing input watts and output watts along with HP through the full rpm range of the motor. Can you do this at your shop.

I don't currently have equipment to do this, but we can simultaneously collect 8 analog points to computer files and create graphs from the collected data.

(The thing I like about hooking up a generator and self running is it puts all questions to rest without even worrying about numbers. If it self runs, it is in effect putting out more power than the electrical power you are putting in.) All the numbers in the world won't be as convincing as a motor-generator set that is self running!!!!

Since your motors are capable of several hundred percent over unity, we shouldn't have to split hairs. If we are within 5 or 10 percent on something running 250 to 500% over unity the numbers will be statistically valid. If we self-run there is no valid argument against what you are doing. It is only a matter of how much at that point!

After we test, if the numbers look good to you, I will have my P.E. certify everything, and we can post the results in any format you want. We can also have them dated and notarized if you would like.

Gregory · May 24, 2006, 07:34:40 PM

Hello JackH!

I think you have the best thinking to do this all along. You can.
To use only the pull/attraction force between the magnets is a very good idea, I also have it. This is the most simple and the best idea to avoid any problem about demagnetization. In this pull case the magnets will "never" demagnetize in normal use, they keep their standard magnetization level as long as it wanted.

I agree with you, the most important at now to build your best motor. The motor must come first, so just build it with serenity, doesn't matter how many time it takes.

But I also agree with Jake: If you once make it self-run this proves everything, and become (almost) unquestionable, and other measurements are only needed to show more accurate data and results, if you want.

And after one day, when people can see a motor runnning by itself, with public and correct measurements... It doesn't matter more they believe it or not, because they can't refuse it any longer... (Otherwise as we talked, it's not violate the laws of conservation of energy.)

Wish you a good and pleasant work!
And hope to hear your success soon.

This is very exciting...

Best Regards,
Greg