David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device

[Cadman]

In the 3 Battery System, does the input actually pass through the motor without ENTIRELY being "consumed" by the motor? I believe this to be true. In fact, I believe MOST of it goes through the motor.

I believe that the voltage that is input into the MATT MODIFIED PULSE motor passes through it and is joined by the generated voltage plus the collapse of the coil. All of which hits battery 3. Or maybe it is JUST the input voltage and the coil collapse. I don't know for sure.
Dave

Dave,

One thing I remember from my study of generators and motors that strikes me as important is that as the armature coils move from positive to negative magnetic field, when they are in a middle point between the two, the coil that is changing polarity is short circuited at the commutator to remove the stored charge in that coil. The reasoning for that was to reduce sparking at the commutator brush.

Why destroy that charge? Why not use it instead?

Is that one of the things Matt accomplished when he modified the scooter motor design?

Cadman

[ramset]

Small update
Carroll is checking his Matt Motor out and will be shipping it to Luc
also we are working on Getting the batteries to Luc too .

[tinman]

 author=Dbowling link=topic=4612.msg512583#msg512583 date=1509595823]



[/quote]

In the 3 Battery System, does the input actually pass through the motor without ENTIRELY being "consumed" by the motor? I believe this to be true. In fact, I believe MOST of it goes through the motor.

After spending a lot of money on this DUT,buying new automotive size batteries(all same brand and size),a new motor,and then a new inverter to replace the motor,and spending many hours/days on this system,i would think i qualify to add my input into this.

The answer to the above is no-not all the energy leaving the 24 volt bank is consumed by the motor. I would say closer to half.

Matt and I disagreed with Luc, and still do about his test setup (Batteries too small, no pulse motor) as well as his measurements. Not that the NUMBERS on his meters are incorrect. Only that they do not measure what he has STATED they measure, and that his understanding of what is going on is incorrect. Matt said his meters "lie." He said that because they are not telling him what he BELIEVES they are telling him, but it is NOT that the reading on the meter is incorrect. It is HOW he is measuring things. I have taken the liberty of copying the statement Luc made and pasting it here to point out our issue with what he said.

After viewing Luc's video a few time's,and going on what i measured during my tests,i believe Luc's meters are telling the truth.

Luc's statement
Quote: "If battery 1 & 2 are connected in series and are 12 volts each = 24 volts and the current is measured at 1 amp = 24 watts entering the motor and if battery 3 is at 12 volts and the current entering it is measured at 1 amp = 12 watts entering battery 3. So if we have 24 watts coming out from input batteries and 12 watts going in the charge battery it means half of the input power is being used by the motor and potentially half recovered by the charge battery."

Dave's response 

We do not agree that half the input power is being used by the motor. It is our contention that even though 24 volts come out of batteries 1 and 2, there are 12 volts in OPPOSITION that "neutralizes" (for lack of a better work) 12 of those volts and all that enters the motor is the 12 volt difference. Which is why we say the motor is running on the "potential difference." That is our issue with the measurements Luc is making, not the numbers on the meters.

Dave,this is exactly what Luc is showing.
Lets look at his numbers from his video in the screen shot below.

As you can see,the current value remains the same throughout the entire system,which is .44 amps.

Now,lets take the voltages from the meter reading the 24 volt battery bank(batteries 1&2),and from that we will subtract the voltage from battery 3.
So,the voltage across the motor is 25.46v - 12.53v = 12.93v
So the calculated power consumed by the motor is 12.93 x .44A =5.6 watts.

As Lucs meters only go to 1 decimal place on the voltage,we will do the same.

So Lucs meters are telling us that the motor is using 5.6 watts--and we have done this the way you asked,by subtracting battery 3 voltage from batteries 1&2 voltage.

So,as the total output from batteries 1&2 is 25.46@.44A=11.2 watts,and  if the calculation of the motors consumption is correct,then the power(in watts) going into battery 3 should be as follows (11.2 watts - 5.6 watts)= 5.6 watts.

If we look at the screen shot--what do we see?

I also disagree with all of his calculations about what is possible with this system. He is presenting numbers for an inaccurate build of a machine he does not understand and making assumptions about what can be done by connecting it to a generator, stating that a combination of a motor run on this system connected to a generator is only capable of recovering 19.7 watts of 25 watts expended.


I have lots of things I have done that move forward and far beyond these simple experiments. So does Matt Jones. I would bet anyone any amount of money they want to bet that you will find that a proper build of this system run between the positives will use FAR less than what is stated, and that a generator can be built that can exceed his estimate of what can be generated. I know because I have built such systems. I will not be sharing how I did it. I have put up with enough crap without introducing NEW concepts which no one is going to want to believe either.


But BUILD this system correctly and you will see what we have seen and can begin down the path we have been on for 10 years now.

When did things change Dave,as this was the very system you had me build some time ago,and then the motor was replaced with an inverter. Back then,with the system Luc has,you said worked as claimed,but now it seems that the system is wrong to show the results you claim.

Even when we subtract the voltage from battery 3 from batteries 1&2 as you claim has to be done to get the consumption of the motor,the readings on Luc's meters are accurate and correct--there is no error there at all.

Perhaps it is not us guys that dont know how to take accurate power measurements of this system?.

This is you claim at post 263
Quote: The longest run I have done so far is ten hours, but I have done long runs three days in a row without drawing down on my primaries. The load I am running on the system is twofold. First there is the inverter, which is only running 18 1/2 watts, which is what I need to run off the inverter to balance with the load I am running off the other half of the circuit, which is the motor. It is running another motor as generator and is pulling 11 amps at 12 volts per hour.
So if someone has an answer for how I can pull just over a hundred amp hours a day for three days in a row out of two 18 amp hour batteries and still have a full charge on my primaries, I would love to hear it. Otherwise I would submit that I am NOT full of crap and this is a working system. :

Well,it was after that comment that i went and spent all that cash on the things you said i needed,and i built the systems to your specifications at the time-->and got the same results Luc is showing.

But you claim to have pulled 100 amp hours from two 18 amp hour batteries,and still have full charge on your primary batteries after the 100 amp hours was drawn from them.

Now,i still have all that gear on the shelf,and even better,i now have far more accurate power measuring equipment.

So,what are the chances of getting this !updated! version of the system,as it seems that all my money was spent on building !a now! outdated system,that did not seem to work as claimed.

I believe Luc's tests are going to prove what I have been saying all along, which I proved to myself 10 years ago but to which no one was willing to listen, including folks on THIS forum. And that is that you can get EXTENDED runs from this system.

OK,so ten years ago you had a working system. So,in that case,the system you had me build should have worked as claimed ? 

This is all so confusing.

First the 3 battery and motor system was good,then it was no good,but then good 10 years ago,but then we had to swap out the motor for an inverter 
I built it as you stated,and i listened,but got negative results.
I then swapped out the motor for an inverter as you asked,but still the results were negative.

Now Luc is showing the very same results,on the very same system you had me build,and now he is measuring it wrong,and the system is also wrong 

Now we need a pulse motor? 


Brad

[tinman]

Dave,

One thing I remember from my study of generators and motors that strikes me as important is that as the armature coils move from positive to negative magnetic field, when they are in a middle point between the two, the coil that is changing polarity is short circuited at the commutator to remove the stored charge in that coil. The reasoning for that was to reduce sparking at the commutator brush.

Why destroy that charge? Why not use it instead?

Is that one of the things Matt accomplished when he modified the scooter motor design?

Cadman

There is no coil shorting by the commutator in a multipole PM DC motor as used in Daves DUTs.


Brad

[tinman]

Small update
Carroll is checking his Matt Motor out and will be shipping it to Luc
also we are working on Getting the batteries to Luc too .

Ok,so when i spent all that cash on what Dave said i needed,it was an ordinary PM DC motor that was needed,then an inverter,then a combo of the two-->and now,now we need a !!MATT!! motor 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb9AZAIRQlU