Bessler Wheel Theory by Alex

[markh]

I agree, it seems like a viable way to move things.    The more I think about it ,the weights themselves would also affect rotation.  (I think)  If the top and bottom one are both facing to the right (their heavy side on the right) , It seems that it would push the wheel clockwise.  I am more than willing to be wrong on this one, but if you could have a spring to assist in the rotation at the most efficient spot (directly up and down) that it seems like the wheel would move.   It seems almost too simple to be the answer.  Thus I'm not holding my breath, but as soon as I can, I think this is going to be my first actual build.    Unfortunately I probably won't be able to start my wheel build for another month or so, but I'm looking forward to it.   

I always look at these MT drawings, and think of them too often as 2 dimensional wheels.  I think we have to always think about how these wheels may interact in 3-d space, like that lever rotating toward us.    Due to his clues about it being so simple that a carptener's apprentice could do it, i think it's got to be something that is right in front of us, but none of us are seeing it, our brains aren't putting together the clues in the right order. 

I know, I know, it can't be done, and it's impossible.   I look at this more like the ultimate brain teaser.  It's about seeing if you can figure it out.  You never know, we just may figure it out.

peace
mark

[Dr]

HI Alex and Mark H: Here is an Idea I have about the above drawing #136, What if the levers at "D" were not levers at all but leaf springs and attached to the springs are those half round weights, now instead of this whole apparattus being outside the wheel, it fits inside so that the combined weight of both crossbars pushes the bottom leaf spring flat to the inside curve of the wheel. But at the top that leaf spring would be straight so that the weights could just make contact with the inside rim of the wheel. Now all the weight of the crossbars is stored as energy in the bottom leaf spring and lets say we turn the wheel clockwise as the 6 O clock position heads towards 9 O clock CF and gravity release some of their hold  and the springs force the entire inner mechanism towards 3O clock. Just a theory what say you?

[markh]

Hey Dr

That's interesting, its like you are separating the inside from the wheel,    I must admit my math on this whole concept is limited, so I'm going to have to rely on my build coming up (hopefully soon)  but it seems like a very interesting idea. 


peace
mark

[Bessler007]

The whole is the sum of its parts.

Any combination of the MT's should produce a more complex machine resulting in an average of its parts.

No where in the MT's can a solution disproving the conservative nature of gravity be found.  Those graphics might better be viewed as an historical overview of attempts.

Most looking for an answer to this perplexing riddle either review historical efforts seeing the beauty of Da Vinci's D curves or happen on them independently.  In either case it's mathematically provable to be a dead end.

Some of the greatest mechanical geniuses God has blessed humanity with have attempted this riddle.  Some become bitter heaps complaining when people talk too much then when people don't talk enough.

Now if you can do the math disproving the conservative nature of gravity you might have a sound idea to build.  An alternative to working the equations is to build and let reality do the math.  Either way the math will be done.

That's all I got to say about this matter.

[unbalanced]

I have posted this theory over at Re: New accelerating gravity wheel ! Converted video from but I feel that this is a better home for it and so will repost it here modified:

Hello everyone: I am new here but I feel as though I know many of you well, having read till my eyes blurred. Bessler said something to the effect; "...taking various illustrations together and combining them with a discerning mind, it will be possible to find a valid description of motion." but motion may not be the best translation, perhaps movement as in the movement of a clock.

I believe that Bessler's movement has been right in front of our eyes for 300 years and no one until perhaps me, saw it for what it was. What I have to say will give credence to Bob's design and lend a great deal of insight into what I preceive to be the most logical explanation. I like the idea of open source but remember where this comes from... Bessler himself.

In the following illustration of Bessler's, note the stampmill on the extreme left. I do not believe that this was placed in this illustration to denote that his wheel was capable of doing work. This is the internal mechanism of the machine. In other words this is a rendering of what is actually inside Besslers wheel.

That the rods were moved from 5:00 to 12:00 by means of the very similar workings of a stamp mill cams and collars were used. The cams in Bessler's wheel were connected to an inner shaft that was independant of the wheel but connected to the pendulum. In this manner the pendulum not only regulated the the speed of the wheel by determining at what angle or time each rod would be lifted (if the wheel is going too fast the rod would meet the cam at 4:00 instead of 5:00 etc) but I surmise that the pendulum initially added the extra power needed to lift a rod ( at lower rpm) by turning the cam in the opposite direction of the on-coming rod. This again lends more credence to Bob's design which uses a lifting cam. In Bessler's wheel the collar on the lifting rod rode up the cam as the wheel turned but at the same time the cam was being turned or forced under the collar by the pendulum. Once the wheel had gained inertia the pendulum could be haulted in the virtical.

When Bessler wanted to slow or stop his wheel he needed only to rotate this cam so that the weights began ascending while outboard. Bob's device would benefit by this moving cam arrangement rather than using a disk brake to regulate speed.

If nothing else this theory of mine would add the additional inertia (that of the independant pendulum helping to lift the rods) which is wanting to bring Bessler's wheel into line with the laws of physics.

In the following illustration it seems clear that these push rods or shafts went through drum/axel. I feel certain that the cam shaft that was connected to the pendulum went through all of the rods that were cut out (with long ovals) so as to move around the shaft and still be able to travel up and down.

Though it flies in the face of what has been said about the gentle starting of Bessler's wheel, it occurs to me that the rope around the axel going out the window to the palat of bricks was not a demonstration of potential work either but rather the only means Bessler had of getting his wheel up to sufficient speed to have adequate centrifugal force to carry the shaft from where it was thrown to just past neutral to where it could be flung to it's outer stops on the opposing side. In short it is possible that the rope was a starter cord. I'm sticking to the stamp mill mechanism but I'm not married to the starting cord.

My hypothesis is further based on Bessler's four and six rod drawings in which two opposing weights were placed on the ends of push rods or shafts that went through or just beside the axis. I believe Bessler's shafts were square though the weights may have been cylendrical.

Bessler's wheel was unique from all the previous designs of mass shifting over-balance wheels in that his wheel alone utilized the potential created by five decending weights to lift only one weight at a time vs several or half of them and (2) he utilized, at least in starting up his wheel, a pendulum that provided external force to aid in the lifting of the individual weights. (3) Bessler's design only needed to lift each weight a small distance beyond the neautral point where in centrifugal force carried the weight the remainder of the distance.

If there exists, even the remostest possibility that Bessler's was a workable design then it would be incredibly remiss of all who take an interest in such folly not to pursue this endeavor to its extremes. A successful wheel of this nature is exactly what the world needs right now on just about every level I can think of.