URGENT! WATER AS FUEL DISCOVERY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE

[qiman]

I once connected the charging side of a bedini wheel and charged up a bank of capacitors to 100+ Volts doing arc tests with graphite brushes in a 1 ounce shot glass of olive oil, the discharge sparks were great until I noticed no more spark because the wire came off the cap and by the time I connected it back the voltage had climbed to over 1,000 Volts and KABOOM!!!  The oil shot up nearly 6 feet high and with a loud sound so I have no doubt someone could run an engine if there's enough engineering and power

Great work Paul, I'm glad to see you doing this. Bedini oscillators are the way to go...much faster charging. The way you are charging the cap can give you different results when discharging. Conventional thinking is that you need electrons piling on plates to charge a cap...that incorrect viewpoint is detrimental to sanity and has no place in science and electrical engineering...and I mention this in response to someone else.
------------------------------
Check this out please, everyone:
"Read pages 26-29 of this document:
Eric Dollard Notes on Dielectricity and Capacitance.
Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/73155/Eric-Dollard-Notes-19861991

"The misconception that capacitance is the accumulation of electrons has seriously distorted our view of dielectric phenomena.""
------------------------------

I agree with Luc that more effort needs to be put on the water and not just getting the spark...but what everyone is missing and this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whatever in the world S1R is up to, but the fuel you're putting into the coil is the capacitor's discharge-----WHAT CHARGED THE CAP---...that is also where at least some exploration needs to take place.

1. Electrons from closed loop hot electron current is NOT what charges a cap and isn't even required.
2. Voltage Potential alone can charge a cap without current.
3. A closed loop hot current connection will charge a cap but that doesn't mean it is from electron piling.
4. The discharge of capacitors depending on how they are charged make a difference in the effects depending on application...just like how a battery is charged cold or hot...makes a difference in what it runs...bulbs are brighter white than if charged with hot current, etc...
5. Charge a cap with a single wire connected to its terminals...discharge it..effects are different than if you charged it with "current."

Anyway, just something to consider.

[k4zep]

@Ben: Just curious....what about timing and ignition firing?

Hi Xbox

Will let you know in a few days when I get it going (If it does!) as I work in brief spurts of creativity......but definitely after TDC, probably between 30-35 degrees for the very short power pulse and best mechanical positioning of the piston/connecting rod/flywheel. 

Spent all afternoon chasing around town buying loose ends, doo dads, tubing, tanks, angle AL, base board to put all this together in a presentable complete motor...........There are dozens of little parts needed to make a working device not counting the big ticket items!  Have to build up a presentable string of insulated diodes on a board for the LV isolation string, (20 diodes in a row hanging in the air just won't hack it in a working motor) work out mounting for the IR detector and associated parts.mount for the motor, mount for the tank, position and attach all major components to the baseplate, etc, etc, etc..  Calculate the amount of keying material to give the proper dwell for the coil to get good spark.  A zillion little questions to answer, one at a time.....loose ends............arrrrgggghhhh.......

The final device must run right but must look "right" to be presentable to anyone but our old cat here in the condo......Junk and looking like junk is a bad way to start looking at a motor that runs on water!!!!

I will be using a circuit very similar to Ossie's, keying off the shaft with IR detector to SS Rly keying normal auto coil, LV supply via variable power supply to adjust power in the plasma from none to about 50J!  I really hope to run around 3-5J but time will tell......Basic test show I can run up to about 100 PPS but that is over kill......Just came out that way.  IF it runs, will post schematics and block diagrams, again is simple straight forward electronics, a real "nerd" would put a little micro in there and let it handle the whole job, but for experimental work, straight analog is enough.

By building this motor and burning the midnight oil thinking on what I was going to do and how it should work,  I actually have learned so much that I am already looking forward to the next one, Much better ways to do things with the injection!  Injection and power input into the plasma I believe is the key to variable power/rpm's.  But first things first, get this darn thing running!

It would do all of those fuzzy in basic transformer theory, to go read up on it.......Some statements about transformers and how they work as posted on this and other list make me turn green when I read them........I will simply say I have never seen a High Voltage transformer with a solid metal core (nail which is a lousy core for those in the know)  and uninsulated wire in my life do anything/zilch/nada. It is to put it in a down south bucolic way "A dead ass short"..........get real!.  There are special transformers that do use surface area for voltage/current transformation but there is NEVER any real power gained in a transformer (always losses!) for many obvious reasons to even the most technically challenged!......You can change the voltage and current ratios in and out but you always get less power out of a transformer than you put in. There is NEVER a power gain in a transformer!!

For those that care and really want to learn go to:

http://www.electricianeducation.com/theory/electric_transformers.htm

Digest it and you will have a very good handle on what is going on in "real transformers".

Ben

[gotoluc]

A video that looks very much like Graneu experiment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O27hq1NC_U

Hi Yucca, very good find ... this is a confirmation that the power is much more in the water than the spark.

Thank you for posting this video.

Luc

[k4zep]

Hi Everyone,

This is both ON TOPIC and sort of OFF TOPIC

ON TOPIC:  We need to continue our present direction in designing, improving and applying the plasma spark to water to release the energy in it necessary to drive a piston down in an internal combustion engine, AS WELL AS THE MULTITUDE OF OTHER APPLICATIONS to which this technology can be applied.  We are definitely on to something here with LUC, capacitor70, Ossie, XBox, myself and others actually doing experiments and coming up with real results.

Since Luc started this thread, many positive results and forward direction has occurred.  I will be doing more of my own tests this weekend on testing a variation of the plasma circuits in here already and will post all results.  We are definitely on the right course of action because all of a sudden, S1R is coming out of the woodwork again, I believe to still attempt to lay claim to this idea, even though it was actually done in the 1950's by Adam Crawford in Scotland!

I truly believe S1R found something about Adam Crawford and then created a forum 3 years ago so the likes of us can actually figure it out for him.

Slightly OFF TOPIC:
I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but a few things don't add up.  S1R's write up description and posts on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum said the main coil was uninsulated BARE COPPER WIRE, and two coils using stranded insulated wire. 

I am degreed in Physics, but not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imagination, but even my 6th grade science teacher showed this in his electricity experiment, that electricity follows the path of least resistance.  Whether it is a straight piece of wire or coiled up a billion times, isn't BARE WIRE essentially a DEAD SHORT between windings, and therefore no different than a straight piece of wire (not counting the resistance per foot of copper)?  That was a rhetorical statement... LOL

Then today, S1R posted on the Yahoo Waterfuel forum, "the main coil has black tape on it, as well as "the other black coil."  The original statement, however said the other 2 coils were insulated stranded wire.  Looking at SIR's own picture very closely, shows the black coils are NOT black tape covering BARE WIRES ( I still can't get over the bare wire thing... LOL), but looks like standard factory insulated wire. 

OK, pick a story and go with it, S1R!

Then a nail just thrown in the air space of the coil as opposed to the wire being wound tightly around the nail, also would be a dead short across the bare wire windings as it simply laid on top of the bare wire windings.  Certainly one of those conditions would cause a dead short!

Years ago, I had a bad ignition coil on my car.  The primary showed 1 Ohm resistance which was OK and within the manufacturer's specifications.  The secondary coil however measured only 4K Ohms, but should have been on the order of 10K to 12K ohms, far below manufacturer's specifications.  That meant a some of the secondary windings burned (melted) and created a short between the windings resulting in greatly reduced resistance.

Then we have the best statement of all:  The coils slowed down the electricity enough so that the timing on the Briggs and Straton engine (funny how Briggs and Straton abbreviated is BS) did not have to be changed.

Again, I am not an electronics guru, but doesn't electricity travel at the same speed, regardless as to what it is traveling through?  I do know there are timer/delay circuits one can design and create, but isn't that simply using components that allow for charge/discharge times and other components that vary the time of delivery of the electricity, but doesn't change the actual speed of electricity itself? Sorry, rhetorical again!  LOL

Regardless, these three coils certainly cannot "slow down" the speed of electricity to that extent!

OK, so in summation, we have Bare Copper Wire as a main coil, but then recanted to being covered in black tape, the other black coil also having black tape around it.  But S1R's original description said the 2nd and 3rd coils were insulated stranded wire, but then "the inventor's" own picture clearly showing otherwise (unless he's the best in the world at wrapping black tape around a wire to look exactly like factory made insulation), we have an inverter, but not really, we have 3 coils wound so that they "slow down" electricity enough to the extent where adjusting the timing on a BS engine (I love that) wasn't necessary, etc., etc., etc...

Again, I am not calling anyone a LIAR, but... draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself, but I am literally ROFLMFAO!

Back ON Topic:  For this reason, we need to continue on our current path and KEEP FOCUSED.  I believe we are close to the next steps.  As Luc has stated all along, we need to keep this all Public Domain for the betterment of us all.  The group of people I am working with have already agreed to make everything we do, success, failures and achievements totally PUBLIC for everyone here, on other forums and to have it available to everyone!  This is too important to keep any of it secret!

Regards,
Geo

Hi Geo,

I like your style and logic...No more needs to be said!  You would make a darn good lawyer!  Hummmm don't know if that is a compliment or not!  You might not be a Guru in electronics but your Physics degree and attention to detail has you one up in my book!  Too tired, too late to work on my motor so reading back post!

Ben

[gotoluc]

Great work Paul, I'm glad to see you doing this. Bedini oscillators are the way to go...much faster charging. The way you are charging the cap can give you different results when discharging. Conventional thinking is that you need electrons piling on plates to charge a cap...that incorrect viewpoint is detrimental to sanity and has no place in science and electrical engineering...and I mention this in response to someone else.
------------------------------
Check this out please, everyone:
"Read pages 26-29 of this document:
Eric Dollard Notes on Dielectricity and Capacitance.
Eric Dollard Notes (1986--1991)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/73155/Eric-Dollard-Notes-19861991

"The misconception that capacitance is the accumulation of electrons has seriously distorted our view of dielectric phenomena.""
------------------------------

I agree with Luc that more effort needs to be put on the water and not just getting the spark...but what everyone is missing and this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whatever in the world S1R is up to, but the fuel you're putting into the coil is the capacitor's discharge-----WHAT CHARGED THE CAP---...that is also where at least some exploration needs to take place.

1. Electrons from closed loop hot electron current is NOT what charges a cap and isn't even required.
2. Voltage Potential alone can charge a cap without current.
3. A closed loop hot current connection will charge a cap but that doesn't mean it is from electron piling.
4. The discharge of capacitors depending on how they are charged make a difference in the effects depending on application...just like how a battery is charged cold or hot...makes a difference in what it runs...bulbs are brighter white than if charged with hot current, etc...
5. Charge a cap with a single wire connected to its terminals...discharge it..effects are different than if you charged it with "current."

Anyway, just something to consider.

Thank you qiman for bringing this information here and raising these points to help us think of things we could be missing when using or programing.

Luc