Linnard?s hydrogen on demand system without electricity !

[Tacmatricx]

Hi Peter,

The design is interesting, similar to the Alkaline fuel cell designs I proposed earlier in the thread. Never thought of applying the principal to the water fuel cell tho? GOTTA LOVE SKETCHUP!!!

Just make sure none of the gasket material or epoxy used to build the cell reacts with the solution... I had a few weird reactions with all kinds of materials I wanted to use!

The fiberglass membrane is something I was considering as well but opted out as the reaction relies on the fluid mixing to pass ions from one side to the other. Not sure how this membrane would allow that to happen reliably. I am actually considering adding a pump to my cell to force a flow in the cell and see if that gives me anything more when I turn it on as apposed to off in the same cell.

The rubber gaskets should not leak... I would however propose Fluorine Rubber Sheet instead of rubber gaskets for their high resistance to the alkali. Stainless steel bolts and large washers would give you a tighter seal I think?

I am using the thinnest tungsten rods I can find so that I can still sand any crap off from a bad run... foil would be ruined if you had a bad run... I will defiantly be using pure foil (not coated film foil) for my final reactor once I am through the bad cell stages.

I like your CAM idea with the micro switches and it would be totally adjustable with the ability to be powered from a fuel cell. At 300:1 there should be more than enough torque.

Good luck with the self made colloids... maybe you can use alcohol with the magnesium and then add water and boil off the alcohol? That way there would be no Mg + H20 reaction?

If you build it... Run PPM tests at intervals to see if this figure changes related to cell output!

Well Done... Build it... It will work! We just need to keep it running!

Chris

[Peterae]

Hi RR2 and Chris

Thanks for the replies.

The main reason I wanted to try this design is for ease of manufacture, I wont be using any glue, but the flexibility of this system as well, for instance if I wanted to build Hydrogen and Oxygen storage chambers into the design then I use a slightly larger sheet of Perspex with the cutout's in place, also it would be possible to build a fuel cell into the design making the end product in one solid box shaped device, 2 wires out for electricity and 1 spout in for water, well we can all dream LOL.

I need to do some trials first, as you say the membrane may not work and this is key to my gas not mixing.
My main concern was the leakage of the Lye through the rubber gaskets; I wish I was as confident about this as you seem to be Tests are the only answer although your words have helped me feel a bit more confident about this approach.

I am not too worried about using new electrodes each time, I have been buying Tungsten foil on eBay 99.999 pure quiet cheaply, still need to find a source for zinc sheet in the uk, I am thinking roofing supplies and they also use rubber sheet as well.

My first step is to try making the colloids, I don?t think I will have much trouble with silver, but as you both say Magnesium will react with the water, so I need to try some experiments, luckily I have a PH meter as well so I can see how much Magnesium has been converted to hydroxide, I will try using chilled water first in the hope the reaction with water will be low.

I will report how things go, I will try to jump the hurdles as they approach 


Cheers
Peter

[Tacmatricx]

Hi Peter,

The use of bolted gaskets is a solid idea for leak prevention... My only comments are to find the volume of 100ml of H2 gas at one atmosphere and the same for O2 and try to build the cell so that as the gas pressure increases, the levels in the H2 and O2 sides of the tank remain level. Also please add a pressure switch so that at x psi the generation connection is broken and will reconnect when the pressure is restored. Wouldn't want an explosion of corrosive liquid and shrapnel!

Run some tests on the perspex, based on the cell size I would reccomend a torque standard for the bolts to keep the pressure even, oversized thickness end plates and large washers to distribute the bolt load on the perspex.

"I need to do some trials first, as you say the membrane may not work and this is key to my gas not mixing." This is just an idea and I cannot confirm or deny that the liquid mixing is key. However I am observing more violent reactions when the elecrrolyte solution has a flow to it. Hope to attach a video to that point when I get a chance.

As for gasket leaks, I am using lab gear in my setup which are all glass with rubber bungs so I have been blessed with no leaks as yet.

Please confirm the foil is actually pure and is not a plastic film coated in pure tungsten like aluminium foil. Have a feeling the tungsten could be separated from the plastic sheet as were common with some tests I did with simple aluminium foil in water electrolysis.

Check with countertop makers for zinc sheeting... it's a common countertop in most places.

Have you looked into the specs of the Fluorine Rubber Sheet? Thats the gasket material I will be using in my production cell.

Good luck with the colloids and the cell... Nice to have another builder in the team!

Chris

[ResinRat2]

This work is inspiring.

I decided to set up a three electrode cell similar to yours. One tungsten/carbide, one zinc, and one very thin (1/16") tungsten electrode to be used for regeneration. I have it wired like your three electrode cell Chris. Voltage is being controlled by using an old Radio Shack electronics kit. (I posted the vid on YouTube) using a voltage regulator circuit.

I have had the cell running with 0.222 - 0.224 volts being used for regeneration. The cell looks very clean and I am seeing the oxygen coming off the zinc. No plating evident as of yet. I am beginning to see the feathery evidence of zinc replating as zinc.on the zinc electrode. Very nice. I hope it stays as zinc and not zinc hydroxide. Time will tell.

It could be that this configuration only requires very low voltage to encourage regeneration, not like the four electrode cell that required 0.80 - 0.85 volts. Very interesting. I think this may be a very important aspect to pursue. The three electrode configuration may be the answer.

Thanks for your interest.

[Tacmatricx]

Dave,

You're the one with the most experience noticing the hydroxide... do you have any images of what a good plating looks like and what the zincates look like?

I'd be very interested in what voltages works well as a good base. I can build the electronic controls but I need a solid baseline to build it.

Next step is trying the carbon or sulphur... Should be interesting at the very least!

Chris