Faraday's Paradox experiment

[gravityblock]

It's the outside circuit that causes the counter torque on the moving magnet.

I agree with this.  We need to ask ourselves why.

Some will say it's because the disc is pushing off the external circuit or something along that line.  I think this is only partially correct.  The electrons leaving the disc will push off the disc and the electrons leaving the external circuit will push off the external circuit.  They should cancel each other out, but they don't due to the electrons pushing off the disc with less force at the rim than the electrons pushing off the external circuit at the axis.

The closer you get to the end of a toilet paper roll, the faster it will go (This I do know...LOL).  The connection of the external circuit at the axis will see the axis of the disc rotating faster than the connection of the external circuit at the rim will see the rim of the disc rotating.  This means the electrons at the axis are pushing off the external circuit with a greater force than the electrons are pushing off the disc at the rim.  This creates an unequal force.  The difference in this unequal force creates a counter torque against the rotation of the disc.

When we extract the current on each side of the axis, there is no unequal force, since the electrons will be pushing off the disc and pushing off the external circuit at the same speed or with the same force on both sides of the axis.  These forces are canceled.  This does not create a counter torque in the system.

This is a theory.  It may not be correct and my brain is hurting and needs to rest before I throw out more dumb ideas.  LOL

[broli]

I agree with this.  We need to ask ourselves why.

Some will say it's because the disc is pushing off the external circuit or something along that line.  I think this is only partially correct.  The electrons leaving the disc will push off the disc and the electrons leaving the external circuit will push off the external circuit.  They should cancel each other out, but they don't due to the electrons pushing off the disc with less force at the rim than the electrons pushing off the external circuit at the axis.

The closer you get to the end of a toilet paper roll, the faster it will go (This I do know...LOL).  The connection of the external circuit at the axis will see the axis of the disc rotating faster than the connection of the external circuit at the rim will see the rim of the disc rotating.  This means the electrons at the axis are pushing off the external circuit with a greater force than the electrons are pushing off the disc at the rim.  This creates an unequal force.  The difference in this unequal force creates a counter torque against the rotation of the disc.

When we extract the current on each side of the axis, there is no unequal force, since the electrons will be pushing off the disc and pushing off the external circuit at the same speed or with the same force on both sides of the axis.  These forces are canceled.  This does not create a counter torque in the system.

This is a theory.  It may not be correct and my brain is hurting and needs to rest before I throw out more dumb ideas.  LOL

That's interesting I never thought about the forces between the disc and stationary circuit. Since the disc essentially becomes a magnet when you spin it. But I think this would be negligible compared to the forces between the magnet and outside circuit.

[gravityblock]

What is the difference between the magnet and the disc?  They are both rotating together in the same direction against the external circuit.  The magnetic field induced on the disc will be stationary, the magnet's field is stationary, and the external circuit is stationary.  How could there be forces between them when they are all stationary.

The only counter torque I can see will be the electrons leaving the disc with less force than leaving the external circuit with a small amount of friction between the disc and external circuit.

We've all thought the magnetic field is stationary even though the magnet is rotating.  I believe this is true when current isn't being taken off the disc.  It is a possibility that the magnetic field of the disc and magnet does rotate at a rate that is proportional to the current being taken off the disc.  It is also possible the magnetic field of the disc may rotate proportional to the current drawn while the magnetic field of the magnet remains stationary.  Then the counter torque may be the secondary effects of the field(s) rotating due to taking current off the disc.  This would be my best guess, but I'm not totally convinced yet.


GB

[gravityblock]

I know you're familiar with this video about the inverted magnetic field, http://www.andrijar.com/homavi/motor.wmv .  This video is filled with valuable information.  Here are my thoughts on it, without going into a discussion on the inverted field.

When the disc and magnet are held stationary and the external circuit is allowed to rotate, then the needle will spin CW when current is flowing through the disc and outside circuit.  The external circuit must be pushing off the magnetic field of the magnet.

When the disc and magnet are allowed to rotate, then the disc/magnet will rotate CCW dragging the external circuit CCW when it otherwise wanted to rotate CW when the magnet and disc were held stationary.  I assume the external circuit is pushing off the magnetic field of the magnet CW, and the disc is pushing off the magnet's field CCW.  The external circuit pushing off the disc with a force that is less than the disc and the disc moves against the external circuit causing a counter torque.  So, the disc and external circuit are pushing off the stationary magnetic field in opposite directions.  This is our counter torque that is proportional to the current running through the system.

So, the counter torque is between the disc and external circuit.  The disc wants to rotate in one direction and the outside circuit wants to rotate in the opposite direction.

In the system where we extract the current from each side of the axis, we'll say the whole system is rotating CW on it's axle.  The current is running in opposite directions on each side.  The connection of the external circuit on the left side must be opposing the left disc according to the direction of the current on that side.  We'll say the external circuit on the left side will oppose the left disc CCW against the rotation of the system causing a counter torque.  Likewise, the connection of the external circuit on the right side must be opposing the right disc according to the direction of the current on that side.  Since the direction of current on the right disc is opposite to the left disc, then the connection of the external circuit on the right side must oppose the right disc CW which is with the direction of the axle giving it a forward torque.  The counter torque and forward torque will cancel each other in this system.

It isn't possible to avoid the counter torque with a "N/S" configuration.  The counter torque can only be canceled with a "N/N" or "S/S" configuration utilizing both sides.  It just happens that each side is naturally connected in series with each other increasing the power output to the 4th power while the input requirements increase to the square thereof providing OU.  There is a simple way to increase the power output of this system to input power even further which I have yet to disclose.


GB

[broli]

GB get to know paint or photoshop. That you can draw your way through in conversations like these. We can talk all day about it without having a clear visual representation of the issue. So I advice you when you can to always draw what you mean. Our brains like pictures more than words.