Faraday's Paradox experiment

[gravityblock]

@All,

Below is an axially magnetized magnet showing only one pole.  This magnet has a small piece of it cut out represented by the white line running radially from the center of the magnet to the outer edge.  There is an inverted field where this white line is. When this magnet is rotated to a position where the white line is at the 12 o'clock position, will the inverted field move to the 12 o'clock position or will it remain stationary in it's current position as shown in the image?  Of course the inverted field will move to the 12 o'clock position with the magnet, and this also means the large unchanging field (represented by red in the image) moved with the magnet also during this rotation.  Unchanging means the field is not changing in direction over time, the field is not changing in strength or density over time, but it doesn't mean the field is not changing in space or position over time.

Allcanadian claims there is always field variations due to changes in magnetic density.  If these field variations rotate with the magnet, which can induce rotation in my experiments and make it flawed, how can the rest of the field with a different magnetic density, not rotate with the magnet?  How can the small portions with changes or variations in magnetic density rotate with the magnet, but the large portions with a different magnetic density as compared to the small portions not rotate with the magnet.  This is total nonsense. If the field does not rotate with the magnet, then the changes in magnetic density won't rotate with the magnet either........but it does, so the other portions of the field must rotate also.

As you can see there is a Paradox in allcanadian's thinking.  The arguments he is trying to use to disprove my experiment, actually shows the field does rotate with the magnet.  LOL

GB

[shylo]

Hi all ....I'm not sure I undrstand,......but are you trying to say the lines of force stay in a fixed position between rotating mags,....or do the lines of force circulate with rotation??.....shylo

[allcanadian]

@Gravityblock
Please do not lower yourself to personal insults to try to make your point I would hope we are all better than that here.

Allcanadian claims there is always field variations due to changes in magnetic density.  If these field variations rotate with the magnet, which can induce rotation in my experiments and make it flawed, how can the rest of the field with a different magnetic density, not rotate with the magnet?

Your correct and this point should be clarified, a uniform magnetic field gradient cannot induce rotation in another uniform magnetic field gradient. If we move the magnets apart such that the fields still interact but are near uniform fields then there is no differences between them and no rotation results.

How can the small portions with changes or variations in magnetic density rotate with the magnet, but the large portions with a different magnetic density as compared to the small portions not rotate with the magnet.

We could use some analogies here, if a piston under pressure in a cylinder was rotated then would the internal "pressure", a force, rotate with the piston?  A scalar magnetic field gradient is a point in space which has magnitude(force) but no direction(a scalar) and the force changes with distance from the source(a gradient). In some respects we could compare the field to a pressurized gas with no friction in which case any difference of force must be a function of pressure. Now if we have one region of the gas at one pressure it may act on any other region at a different pressure but no two regions at the same pressure can act on one another because they are the same.

If the field does not rotate with the magnet, then the changes in magnetic density won't rotate with the magnet either........but it does, so the other portions of the field must rotate also.

Here is an experiment, take two large magnets in attraction a distance apart and place a smaller magnet off center on each of the larger magnetic poles. Now if one magnet is rotated in close proximity to the other we have a "magnetic coupler" of sorts as the smaller magnets project there field differences and act on each other within the larger field gradient. If we increase the distance you will find the force rotating the second large magnet decreases as the fields become more uniform. If you keep the initial distance the same and remove the smaller magnets the force of rotation will disappear as the fields are now uniform. From this we could say the more uniform the fields the less interaction they will have on the axial plane of rotation and if they were perfectly uniform there can be no rotation.
Here is what I did, I placed a magnet in a sealed chamber which was laser levelled with the ground plane of the earth. This magnet was "Levitated" so that it was now one inch from the non-magnetic walls of the chamber in all directions with no frictional forces of any kind, it was free floating in a sealed space. Next I placed another magnet below it on precision bearings which was laser levelled on all axis with the magnet in the chamber and the apparatus was monitored for stability. Then the lower magnet was rotated and there was a slight rotation but if the distance was increased the rotation decreased as the field became more uniform. It should be obvious that a free floating magnet must rotate under any force no matter how small and it was found that the fields could still interact or have an attraction but not effect the other by causing a rotation. I also found in every case that if the lower magnet was tilted off angle by even 1/100 of a degree that the magnet in the chamber would rotate due to differences in the internal material density(mass). This material density translates into a change in field density which can be measured by properly biased hall effect sensor arrays, this differential field density will cause rotation. In fact I could stand four feet away from the apparatus with a magnet in my hand and tilt the magnet in the chamber which resulted in a slight rotation due to the magnets internal imbalance. I will concede I could be wrong and I think we all should do the same however I have done more than a few time consuming and costly experiments which have given me certain facts that tell me the magnetic field does not rotate, that is my opinion.
Regards
AC

[gravityblock]

Hi all ....I'm not sure I undrstand,......but are you trying to say the lines of force stay in a fixed position between rotating mags,....or do the lines of force circulate with rotation??.....shylo

When both mags are rotating at the same speed and direction, then the lines of force between the rotating mags will circulate in unison, as if they were a single magnet without any distance seperating them.  If the mags are rotating at different speeds or different directions, then the field lines will continiously break and connect with each other giving the appearance that the field isn't rotating due to the tiny torque involved during the break/connect interactions. The field lines will break/connect also in the case of having two diametrically magnetised magnets rotating at different speed or directions, and it is also true for the axially magnetised magnets as well.  The torque is much higher with two diametrically magnetized magnets when the field lines break/connect with each other than with two axially magnetized magnets. The lines of force are firmly seated on the magnet.

GB

[allcanadian]

@Gravityblock

The lines of force will circulate between rotating mags if both mags are rotating at the same speed and direction.  If the mags are rotating at different speeds or different directions, then the field lines will continiously break and connect with each other.  The field lines will break/connect also in the case of having two diametrically magnetised magnets rotating at different speed or directions, and it is also true for the axially magnetised magnets as well.

I would disagree, in physics it is well known that these lines of force are imaginary and used only as a form of notation. That is they do not exist in reality and are simply a magnetic phenomena which misled many people in the past. Here is an experiment, take two iron rods and place them under a magnetic north pole and you will find a south pole is induced in each rod thus they repel one another. Next move one rod downward in relation to the other and you will find at some point they will attract thus we see the real reason why the iron filing experiment has misled so many people. The lines of supposed force depicted by the iron filings experiment are not real lines of force they are a simple magnetic phenomena associated with the iron filings themselves. That is the forces of attraction and repulsion tend to form lines in ferromagnetic materials due to the nature of the material and not the source of the field.
In physics the magnetic field is known as a scalar field gradient which has a magnitude at any given point, a force, but no direction intrinsic to each point. If you look at it like water pressure I think it will make much more sense, water pressure is a gradient intrinsic to each point in the gradient and the force applied to it.
Regards
AC