Joule Thief

[jeanna]

I clipped a 24 inch alligator clip to the other side of the wire while the scope was reading it, and let the clip rest on the floor, and the volts shot up to 237v.

@ jeanna

Where are your scope probes attached? Try taking the 24" lead and touch it to various parts of the circuit. It would seem that you have a higher voltage somewhere that is coupling to the lead.

There is only one probe. It is attached to one side of the secondary wire.

I attached the alligator clip to the other end of the same secondary wire and let it touch the floor.

There is no other part of the circuit other than the basic jt. and for this while there are no caps, so no accumulation there.

It is almost as though the floor or ground were a load. Or, and I do not understand the reason for the ground in house currents. It is said that it is there to return to the source or meter . or something.

In the bjt, the battery neg is the ground because it is a closed loop. There is no closed loop with the secondary wire / wires wound on the toroid, however.

I didn't check amps draw at the same time because I didn't want the other battery from the dmm to be involved in any way. So, I do not know if it draws more. I can check. (I will check other parts of the circuit as you suggest.)

The bjt battery was at 1.35v

This toroid is wrapped 7T,7T, and 116T secondary

@All those people working on this MK1 secondary multiplication subject,

If I figure the above circuit has 14T primary running 1.35v where the secondary is 116 turns that is a ratio of 1:10.7.
[If I remember how to work ratios, this is figured by adding 14 plus 116 to a total of 130. now, 14:130 is 1:10.7 ]

My calculator insists that 1.35 x 10.7 =14.45 [1.35 :14.45 = 1 : 10.7]
This means to me that this transformer should be getting me 14.46 volts output.

Since it shows 115v, I am seeing a ratio of 1.35 :115 or 1 : 85 . unless the 237v is valid then I am seeing 1.35 : 237 or 1 : 175.5 . - pretty sweet.

thank you all,

jeanna

[xee2]

@ jeanna

First check the max inputs allowed for your scope. If you are using a /10 probe then you can only go up to 10 times the max input.

The scope needs to measure the voltage between two points, just like a DMM. The tip of the probe is one point and the clip on the lead attached to the probe is the other.

To measure the voltage in your pickup coil, connect the tip of the probe to one end of coil and the clip on the probe to the other end of pickup coil.

If you are measuring over 100 volts with only one lead of scope connected to coil, then I assume the coil probably has over 100 volts between coil ends.

[jeanna]

Thank you xee

Now, why couldn't they have told me that in the manual? I thought that little thing that looks like a clip was for resetting to factory defaults, which was something the manual mentioned.

The manual never mentioned the clip.

thank you so much.

jeanna

[jadaro2600]

@nievesoliveras,

I think we're thinking along the same lines - but I don't know why we should need a motor / generator...  The idea is to have a switching mechanism which somehow stores and dumps current from one side of the circuit to another, yet does so while simultaneously creating more ...or, should I say, a higher energy to dump into the charge battery.

This could be done with a collapsing magnetic field, the collapse of the flux could generate a more powerful volt/amp pulse than source.  Proving this and building around it is the problem.

@jeanna,

I look forward to seeing your waveforms,

There are two ground in a standard wall outlet, one is an upper plug, and the other is the round plug, the other upper plug is an actual current carry phase.  On the 250v supply, there are three phases available, sometimes the unit has to be grounded separate the large supply line.  One phase for each plug.  Other than this, I'm not sure how the energy could be measured unless it was grounded ...the meter spins when there's energy being wasted or used - it's because the energy is flowing from the station to ground and the meter is sitting in the circuit.  The power station essentially create a difference between ground at the station and ground at your house, and you benefit from it.

( Someone please correct me if I'm wrong )

@All,

What's everyone having better luck with, High permeability or Low permeability?

RE: Transformer Ratio, The fact that the ratio is different and yet the voltages are higer is indicative of core material saturation effecting flyback power output.  I think that the increase is due to the actual magnetic field collapsing and not some magic, or what have you..

Has anyone calculated the watt output of a collapse versus the watt input?  (This may have to be done by an electrical engineer)

[jeanna]

@xee,
I am very grateful for your help. I just whipped through all the charcoal coils and the MK2 with no stress. Everything made sense and stayed consistent. thank you. I am smiling   

@Jadaro, OK bud,

@jeanna,

I look forward to seeing your waveforms, Tongue

Here are 2 pics

The teeny little charcoal toroid,  cat #Tor23 from allelectronics 10 / $1
6T,6T,74T2^o
I recorded 68.7v in one direction and
64.2v in the other on the secondary of this.
The secondary is made of 30 gauge Kynar??? (I got it from RS when they were out of the tri-pack last year. It is called Kynar wrapping wire.)

The scopeshot pic has a lot of glare - sorry
I froze the screen at  2.66k Hz because of this interesting waveform. All the rest of the speeds showed variations of a somewhat normal looking wave. This appears to the human eye to have a shadow wave within the actual linear arrangement, I couldn't resist. Too bad for the glare.

2N3904
140 ohm base resistor (still there from yesterday)
1.35v battery

jeanna