Joule Thief

[jeanna]

When I just had the single pickup coil 7-7-70 and was getting 250 volts from 1.3v input thats about 192:1 and the 7-7-70-70 with 1.3 in was getting 350 volts, that's 269:1. I bet if I add a 3rd pickup coil the ratio will hit over 300:1 output from input. The numbers do not add up to normal transformer theory. I would expect 13 volts from the 7-7-70 coil with a 1.3 volt input. These ratios are at least 10 times higher than I would have thought.

I see.

first, yes, good. You are getting even more than 10 times the expected.

Personally, I believe the usefullness of this voltage will depend on its regularity. I could be wrong

The other thing you have just reported, is that it is not purely additive.

I have seen this too.

The second pickup added much more (and still way more than the 10 times of transformer theory) but it did not double the results of just having one.

@All,
I have been leaning toward making the pick up from one wire, on mine as a result.

Also, since I am also trying to get a smoother curve or a curve of the peaks, at least, I want to keep them from 'rogue' waves. Perhaps what ist has shown us tonight is the way a rogue wave forms.

Thanks Hazens. This helps,

jeanna

[innovation_station]

jeanna

that seams verry intresting ....


might be i can not pretend to know ... lol


i dont know ...  for sure .... 

i think kinda like the dubble slit thing...  waves combining
  and if i hook up the relay i can sw 1v 30 amp with ease ..   but you want to put it to work or it will melt the relays FAST ...

1 side was orange spark other green ...  in past test ... useing relays .. 

so i should be able to adjust the freq with ease ...   

and TUNE THE 2 FREQS FOR SAFE WORKING RANGE ...

SPIKES MAY WELL BE HASH..... AND THE GOOD STUF IS THE RESULTING WAVE ...  BY VAREING THE  2 FREQS ...  IM SURE I CAN VARRY THE COMBINED WAVE

in voltage .. for sure with ease ...

but NOW THIS GOES TO MARCO RODINS MATH     3+6   YOU GET 9    LOL   

HOW DID I HEAR IT B4 ...   3 TIPS TO THE ICEBURG...   HUMMMM...

[jeanna]

@Jadaro,
I may not be understanding your question. If so my apologies.

I look at the bifilar wire wound around the toroid as the source of the actual oscillations.

I - the charge and mag field etc with vectors and all the rest, goes first one way to the center tap, then returns to the beginning.

Each time it does this it reverses the whole shebang.

2-The pulses coming from the transistor base, control the saturation of the magnetic element. The pulses have other functions like using less dc from the battery because the system is off much of the time, possibly creating the rogue wave if the timing is just right, etc.

I personally don't think the CE part of the transistor is doing too much beyond its own transistor thing. Of course, I could be wrong, and if you are using the light in the bjt place, the CE has every thing to do with the light. But what is to be gained by using the jt that way? It is already established that it can let you use an otherwise dead battery far longer etc.

forgive me if I misunderstood your question.
thank you,

jeanna

[jadaro2600]

@jeanna, and others, ..

To help me better understand, is the following statement correct.  If the resistance of the path from positive to base is substantially low, the the resistance between collector and emitter becomes zero.  The net effect is that, when the transistor is on, the full amount of current can flow between coil to collector to ground through the transistor.  Only when the resistance across base is substantially high does the the resistance between collector and emitter vary; I noticed that the resistance between C and E was around 3.5k when the resistance at B was 14.8k...etc, like a variable resistor this thing could be.

If I'm not mistaken then, there is more current flowing through the collector coil than through the base coil?  Wouldn't the collector coil have more control over the magnetic flux?  Doesn't this same coil have to have enough current to cause induction current to oppose that of the base current enough to shut off the transistor?

And since there is a large current flowing through the collector coil, wouldn't there be more inductive flux in any adjacent coils? ..isn't this why the pickup coil gains so much more than the input - just being generally in the flux area - As I see it, the path to base is only to cause the switching on and off via inductively being impeded by a larger magnetic flux?

This can be seen by placing the resistor up from, and resisting through both coils and equal amount, say 1k for each coil, and the circuit ceases to function because there isn't enough BMF to impede the current flowing in the other coil and thus no 'blocking-oscillator' action occurs, and there's no transformer action for the secondary coil to harness.

I personally don't think the CE part of the transistor is doing too much beyond its own transistor thing. Of course, I could be wrong, and if you are using the light in the bjt place, the CE has every thing to do with the light. But what is to be gained by using the jt that way? It is already established that it can let you use an otherwise dead battery far longer etc.

I think you fully understand the question, and thank you!   There is almost nothing to be gained from using the CE path shorted across the terminals, but this is the way the original creator did it, apparently there is something unique about the NPN wall the makes it more favorable to flow through the short than through the CE to Ground path.

@all,
My basic question then is: is it not shorting the path when the CE path is turned off..as if to say, Is this path not available at the time? And at that same time, is that when the magnetic field is collapsing?

If so, then it is as if there is a large negative voltage pulling toward the positive pole, because the path is simply a load between the two supply terminals with ...let's say, an adjunct circuit irritating the process to such a degree as to cause the voltage between the terminals to gain enough strength for it to overcome any resistance impeding the normal function.

..this is not the case with a pickup coil, the gains realized as mentioned above are lost, only to become effected by a pickup coil.  In other words, when adding a pickup coil, there are still these huge transient surges available at the collector, AS well as at any pickup.

[TheNOP]

@MrMag
i fail to see what you meant.
what is different between inputing multiple frequencies with frequencies generators and doing it manually ?
when doing it manually, generating lots of hash, a scope is not fast enough ?



@jadaro2600
to get an answere to your question require a dual trace scope.
monitor from the negative of the battery and the base
see it relationship with the negative of the battery and collector.
i think when one is high, the other will be low and vise versa.

i am solely relying on the less resistive path the current should be taking to come to that conclusion.
since the collector path is open the battery put a high to the base that turn on the transistor.
all the current pass through the collector, and, at the very same time, almost none goes to the base witch turn off the transistor.
etc..., etc...

the base coil is there to start the oscilation.
it is probably creating other effects as well, but currently i am not sure what exactly.

i can have the exact same results, as with the basic jt, with only 1 coil and an external signal to the base of the transistor.
that mean that those spikes are clearly not coming from the base coil.