Joule Thief

[jeanna]

Well, that's just it, it was a couple of fleeting comments, you noticed this when you first posted results from your oscilloscope, that higher voltages were attained by grounding some part of the JTC.

Perhaps, it was the secondary? ..it came off as a sort of greater effect from grounding.  If need be, I'll go back and try to bring up some quotes, but I'm somewhat overwhelmed for time lately.

Well, I was not using the scope properly. xee2 showed me to use the clip and the probe .

Were there other people? Maybe there were.
Yes, time is short in April in the US.

I am looking for information on grounding.
I got a bunch of information the other day, but I can't seem to find out the reason there is a special ground in the plugs in the ac line in america. This is only true when the use is 120 volts. The 240volts circuit uses both prongs for 120 ac juice and uses only 1 ground.
We didn't always have polarity in our plugs, but now, the juice is only on the thinner prong. The other prong is for neutral which is also called ground.
And this occurs from a center tap, somehow. Perhaps that is why older appliances have both prongs the same and they don't complain about the sockets being polarized.
The circuit breakers are necessary so if there is a melt down in the toaster, it won't keep shorting and bring all the power from the power company into that line and burn up your house.
This means the power company power is going into the earth and not back to the power company, doesn't it? 
I am trying to find the logic in the circuit.

At the very least, I have this question, Does ac need to be grounded?
Does it need this so we can be charged? or is there something inherent in ac that requires a ground?

jeanna

[jadaro2600]

I don;t think AC itself needs ground, it simply wants to get to ground, and I think by using AC from the power company designed system, that in fact anything that's used is considered returned to ground, not nescisarily everything going to the house, just what's not returned to the station - this is in an analogous sense and may not be what is actually happening.

It is as if, there is constant push and pull on the line, and when a push stays a push, and doesn't go back to the company, it's gone to ground, is accounted for, and you're billed for it.

I may be wrong, but I don't think AC needs ground, just AC from the power company, it's three phase, or one phase depending on the voltage.

AC is a different concept than what the wall is - say you have an inverter for creating AC from your cigarette lighter in the car, ..there's a ground on the car, but it's not earth, it's the frame, ..and the ac may be going back to frame, but it's most likely going back to the inverter, then back to 'ground' on the frame.

I do believe that AC to the house routes out the same way, what they call ground isn't actually earth.

SO what I was wonder then, has anyone witnessed any anomalies with regard to 'earthing' their JTC in any way?  Putting their load between the JTC and earth itself.  perhaps via a secondary?

[Pirate88179]

Jeanna:

I have always done my own house wiring (My Grandfather owned an electric contractor company in CA) and I was taught that on house ac 120, there are 3 wires, the black (hot) the white (neutral) and the ground.  the ground is there to give the juice somewhere to go rather than through you if there is a short and that can save your life.  It was supposed to allow the breakers to blow (or the fuse) in time to save you.  Now they have GFI circuit breakers which react very very fast so they are safer.  A lot of folks died before the fuse or the breaker would trip in the old days.

Now, let me share and add to your confusion.  Whenever I would run the romex to the breaker box for a new (additional) circuit, I was taught to make sure and tie the neutral (white wire) to the ground bus.  So, I asked a guy once and said " So, the neutral is also a ground?" And he said "No, it is NOT a ground!"  Yet, it was tied to the earth ground bus bar.  So, I have no idea what is really going on with house AC evidently.

Bill

[Pirate88179]

I don;t think AC itself needs ground, it simply wants to get to ground, and I think by using AC from the power company designed system, that in fact anything that's used is considered returned to ground, not nescisarily everything going to the house, just what's not returned to the station - this is in an analogous sense and may not be what is actually happening.

It is as if, there is constant push and pull on the line, and when a push stays a push, and doesn't go back to the company, it's gone to ground, is accounted for, and you're billed for it.

I may be wrong, but I don't think AC needs ground, just AC from the power company, it's three phase, or one phase depending on the voltage.

AC is a different concept than what the wall is - say you have an inverter for creating AC from your cigarette lighter in the car, ..there's a ground on the car, but it's not earth, it's the frame, ..and the ac may be going back to frame, but it's most likely going back to the inverter, then back to 'ground' on the frame.

I do believe that AC to the house routes out the same way, what they call ground isn't actually earth.

SO what I was wonder then, has anyone witnessed any anomalies with regard to 'earthing' their JTC in any way?  Putting their load between the JTC and earth itself.  perhaps via a secondary?

Jadaro:

In your vehicle example, it is grounded.  The frame is only the ground because, (look at your battery connections) the - side of your battery goes directly to either the engine block or the frame or sometimes both. (since the use of aluminum blocks)  So, it has a direct path back to the battery minus post.

Bill

[jeanna]

@MK1

I said this:
A and C are on one side of the split. A is on the underneath side of the wind. It comes from underneath.
B and D are on the other side of the split. B is on the underneath of the wind. It comes from underneath.

Hook up A and B to the 'ac' tips of the bridge.
Hook up C and D to the pos and neg sides of the bridge.

All wires are attached to something.

Splice a load in the wire A between the AC point of the bridge and the toroid.

Is that what you did?
and you replied with this:

@jeanna

There are 2 pair of coil in series , each pair are made from one coil on each side of the toroid, Test the pair to make sure they are connected properly meaning you get good voltage out and , and remember that like led they are polarized, only on one side(one direction) can you use the magic of crosswind pickup coils . Then connect on those 2 pair to the bridge and test with meter where it say load.

Give me dc voltage with full bridge (4 legged bridge or star 4 diode ) from one coil , then 2 coil connected is series (one from each side) then voltage at the load.

Mark

Does that mean that what I said was wrong?
I tried to make the names on the diagram reflect the actual wires on the toroid.
I have made sure I got the highest voltage each time.

They are all connected as I described in my statement.

This is the part that does not make sense.

Then connect on those 2 pair to the bridge and test with meter where it say load.

Give me dc voltage with full bridge (4 legged bridge or star 4 diode ) from one coil , then 2 coil connected is series (one from each side) then voltage at the load.

In this description I count 6 wires.

Also, I cannot put the high voltage pairs together or the voltage will be lost.

I wrote my best understanding of what you are saying. Please use my words to explain this, if at all possible.

Many people appreciate your work with this.

I will do this part tomorrow:

Then connect on those 2 pair to the bridge and test with meter where it say load.

What you said about dc doesn't make sense to me. so, I will wait for more explanation if you can give it.

thanks,

jeanna