Joule Thief

[jeanna]

the effect on the voltage, of adding more turns, will get lower and lower with each additionnal turn, pass a certain point.
further pass that point, it will start having a reversed effect on the voltage.
that is if you have a fixed frequency, even if you add more turns.
...

Hi theNOP,

I would like to say again that there is a reciprocal relationship between the voltage and frequency. If everything else remains unchanged, and you force the frequency to stay the same then doing whatever you do to the make the voltage go higher, will be stifled by having the frequency be the same.

xee2 just posted a successful high voltage circuit that lights a fluoro for him, and look at the frequency.

400Hz !!

If xee had been forcing the frequency to remain the same, his voltage could not have been raised to HV to light a fluoro tube. (At other times that same toroid has rung at between 91.6KHz to 1.8KHz)

jeanna

[nievesoliveras]

@all

There was this circuit that @mk1 posted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg185652#msg185652

I took it and because it is almost the same as the self charger I composed. I changed it so instead of charging another battery or cap, it feedsback to the source.
I do not have the SCR needed to try it, but if anyone has all the parts at hand and want to try it, here is the graphical schematic.
The caps does not need to be too high on voltage for the test.

Jesus

[jeanna]

...
There is a problem with that circuit though, it can be disturbed easily by any movement of the parts. Even it is disturbed if you put it under a table lamp. It can go up a lot, then down slowly....

Jesus

Hi jesus,
You are describing what happened to me with the biggo after I was finished working with it.
I had everything just right, then moved it a tiny bit, and it seemed to go off.
This happened over and over again.
I ended up changing the pot for another one and it was all right. (for a while)
A while back Gadget shared a theory about the wiper being necessary for his special fuji mod because when he used the standard fixed resistor it didn't work.
I do not know if he still thinks this, but in any case, there could be a tiny capacitance or rather spark that jumps from wiper to resistor that makes these toroid things come alive.

I had some "trouble" with a pot way back when I was doing the adjustments the way MK1 does with a diode bridge and a cap and a single turn pot.
It was really in the way for me at that time, so I remember it well.
I blamed the single turn and bought a precision pot and all of them continue to act the same way.
There is a similarity here and it may not be bad components or bad connections.
In some of the parts of our circuits we have either very high voltage or very high frequency.

@all,
It might be worthwhile for everyone to make note of both the frequency and the voltage in your experiments so we can start looking at the patterns that arise.

thank you,

jeanna

[TheNOP]

the effect on the voltage, of adding more turns, will get lower and lower with each additionnal turn, pass a certain point.
further pass that point, it will start having a reversed effect on the voltage.
that is if you have a fixed frequency, even if you add more turns.

I would like to say again that there is a reciprocal relationship between the voltage and frequency. If everything else remains unchanged, and you force the frequency to stay the same then doing whatever you do to the make the voltage go higher, will be stifled by having the frequency be the same.

xee2 just posted a successful high voltage circuit that lights a fluoro for him, and look at the frequency.

400Hz !!

If xee had been forcing the frequency to remain the same, his voltage could not have been raised to HV to light a fluoro tube. (At other times that same toroid has rung at between 91.6KHz to 1.8KHz)

i know you must be confused by this as with a jt the frequency will be changing with any modification you will make to it.
a bjt with a pickup coil is not the perfect setup to learn electronic and its components behaviors.
in short, the fact that the frequency is changing with any change you make to the jt is hidding to you how things in a jt are really working.
the measurements you are taking are not for only one factor at a time.
they are always for 2 or more factors changes.

you will see the above quoted statement happening if you were to trigger the jt differently.
ex: a frequency generator connected to a transformer(jt with pickup) or a simple inductance(bjt).
a transistor, used as a switch, connected to a transformer is the same as a jt with a pickup coil.

if you are using an other way to trigger the transistor, a second "primary" coil, we call it the base's coil, we could also call it the trigger coil, is not be needed.
and if you were not to use the transformer secondary, you would have a bjt with the sole difference being the way the transistor is being triggered.

[resonanceman]

I tried also from 0.005 to 103k. They all work, but the best performance was with the 104k from RS. It is a green square ceramic capacitor.
The trick lies on the base resistor. Put the best variable resistor you can get there and find the sweet spot.
There is a problem with that circuit though, it can be disturbed easily by any movement of the parts. Even it is disturbed if you put it under a table lamp. It can go up a lot, then down slowly.
Lately I have been not able to make it to stay on the charging state for days as the original one.

Jesus

Jesus

Thanks for replying

Just  a few more questions

Did  you  try  anything higher than 104K 
I am assuming  you  these  caps are  pF

When did  you last  get   your circuit  to charge  well?
Was it  before you  found Improvement 2 ?
It is my experience  that a pulsing  DC charges better than  a steady DC .

Are you  still set up on a breadboard ?
I had  trouble  with stability  alot when using breadboards .
So far mine seems pretty stable ......but  it is soldered together .

gary

Edit

I  am trying to add  a couple of pictures
The  first is my board with my 3055
The heatsink  was with my first  3055   I do not really need it .........yet.

The second  is my  Jesus charger add on .