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Overunity Machines Forum



Joule Thief

Started by Pirate88179, November 20, 2008, 03:07:58 AM

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0 Members and 146 Guests are viewing this topic.

conradelektro

Thanks to innovation_station I am now able to determine the number of turns necessary for L1 (base coil), L2 (collector coil) and L3 (secondary) on a given Toroid (standard Joule Thief circuit). The method allows calculating (approximately) the number of turns necessary to achieve a certain Voltage over L3.

Thank you very much, innovation_station, that helps a lot!

Innovation_station called the method “Toroid tuning” and the method goes like this:

a) Wind a four turn secondary L3 on the toroid (one could also use a one turn L3, or a two turn L3).

b) Wind a bifilar L1 + L2 on the toroid. One could start for instance with a 25 turn bifilar L1 + L2 (L1 and L2 have equal length wires).

c) Measure the Volts over L3 for a given L1 + L2 and take note.

d) Change the number of turns of the bifilar L1 + L2 and measure again.

e) Best to step down the number of turns for the bifilar L1 + L2 (while leaving L3 as it is) for instance from 25 to 2 and make a list of all measurements.

f) From the list you will see which number of turns for the bifilar L1 + L2 gives the highest voltage on L3. This is the result of the method. If the good number of turns was for instance 10, then use 10 turns for L1 (base coil) and 20 (double of L1) for L2. You can calculate the number of turns for L3 necessary for a certain Voltage by multiplying the Voltage you got on L3. If a 10 turn bifilar L1 + L2 gave 16 Volt on the 4 turn L3, you will get 160 Volt on a 40 turn L3.

May be the method could be presented in a simpler way, please see the attached lists of measurements and the drawings.

This method is very important for me, because it solves the "Riddle of Turns for L1, L2 and L3” that annoyed me tremendously.

And the method works: I could improve the output of a 23 mm toroid from about 400 â€" 500 Volt to 500 â€" 600 Volt, just by changing L1 and L2 according to the method. And the turns for L1, L2 and L3 on a bigger 42 mm Toroid (determined and calculated according to the method) gave the intended result, about 1200 Volt, at the first try.

Do the method with the wires (size and make) you want to use later for the real coils.

If you want to do it carefully, you will need an oscilloscope, but for a rough estimate a Voltmeter might suffice (but I did not try it).

It takes quite some time to step through many different numbers of turns for the bifilar L1 + L2, to do the measurements and to make a nice list, but it is definitely worth the effort, because you will then wind a certain type of toroid only once with the right number of turns and the intended result.

Greetings, Conrad

conradelektro

Thanks to the advice I got in this forum I could build a Joule Thief with a 42 mm Toroid (FERROXCUBE TX42/26/13-3E27, inductance number Al = 6425nH/N²) that can light up various CFLs, Neons and Fluorescent Tubes with up to 1200 Volt. See the attached photos and drawings.

The lamps are not super bright with a battery of 1 to 1.5 Volt, but nice. One can make them brighter with a battery that holds 1.5 Volt steady (because the power consumption is up to 300 mA average). Of course, with more Volts (e.g. 3 Volt) the lamps become brighter and power consumption goes up.

In case one wants to go for high voltage (CFLs need at least 1000 Volt to light up, then they need only about 650 Volt to shine) it is necessary to get a bigger Toroid (42 mm is a good size) and a Toroid with a high Inductance Number Al (e.g. 6000 nH/N²). Big Toroids need fewer turns of wire for high Voltage (in comparison to smaller Toroids made of the same material). And of course "Toroid tuning according to innovation_station".

I could get up to 600 Volt out of a 23 mm Toroid (FERROXCUBE TN23/14/7-3E27, inductance number Al = 3828nH/N²), but it is very difficult to wind a high number of turns with a thin wire on a small Toroid.

My intention is to build a "Jeanna's light in a box" like Lidmotor and Pirate88179. Have a look at theire videos:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/48/11nzbi59T7w (Lidmotor 19. November 2009 This is Jeanna's Light installed in a wooden box)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3sTtDbrPI&feature=related  (Pirate88179 13. Dezember 2009  This is my replication of Lidmotor's Jeanna Light)

Greetings, Conrad

Mk1

@conrad

Nice coil !  :D

I don't know if you know about the tread with the schematic and the one by Gary(resonanceman) Jt back to basic . it should give you a overview of the first few hundred pages .

Mark


electricme

@ conradelektro,

Thats a well put together posts above, drawings are well done.

@ Jeanna,
here is the last jpg of the adjustable toroid coil selector I made about 5-6 months ago, which I couldnt post as my sat was giving me gypp.
This could help others making joul thieves

jim
People who succeed with the impossible are mocked by those who say it cannot be done.

conradelektro

To mk1 : you propably talk about the thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8341 (Joule Thief 101, from resonanceman). I went through it several times, and learned a lot from it.

To electricme : your adjustable toroid coil selector makes me think, that can definitely speed up the tuning, thank you for the hint.

What I learned today about my 1200 Volt Joule Thief:

When I switch on this Joule Thief (Toroid = FERROXCUBE TX42/26/13-3E25) to light up a 5 Watt CFL it swings with a frequency of about 6 KHz. And today a young person with good hearing was immediately complaining about the awful piercing sound it makes. My hearing is not very good anymore, so I did not realise that.

So, one has to worry about the frequency when running a high voltage Joule Thief. The frequency should be way beyond the hearing of people and animals, which can go up to 35 KHz.

This is the reason why I now want to go into air coils which might allow a Joule Thief to run with very high frequencies which nobody will hear.

Greetings, Conrad