Joule Thief

[Pirate88179]

    @ All:
     What if any is the advantage of using a capacitor instead of batteries. Yes, they work, but, do they last longer, work better, cost less etz...? 
  And has anybody found a way to charge the Run battery, dirrectly yet,  without having to swap and use a second charge battery? Or use a switch. Just using the One Battery to run and charge itself. I think that it has been done, possibly by Lidmotor, (or someone else).
   I just built a coil for my JT using a 2 inch circular ceramic magnet (thin round magnet) similar to the speaker magnets but thinner. I could not notice any beneficial effect of power over a smaller 1" ferrite toroid. It did have a metal shield on one side. I didn't try it by taking the shield off. since iron can help induction by 5000 times. I don't see any advantage yet.
   How many volts does a JT primary need to output, to produce the higher volts (like 1000v, or 10.000v) when a secondary is attached.  I see little or no induction output in a secondary using the 2n2222 transistor.
  Also, how is it possible that a BJT producing only 4 or 5 volts can light up Many 3 v Leds, in my case 25 Leds, possibly many more.  25 Leds times 3 volts is 75 volts worth, from 4 volts using two AAs.   Even if it can light 100 Leds, would they produce more actual light,  than when using only 25 Leds?
    What can a JT do running the new higher powered 12 volt Leds lights bulbs, that have 60 or 100 Leds inside, has anybody tried them yet?
                                   NZ
                                                           

I have found many advantages to using supercaps instead of batteries.  First, they charge much faster AND, they appear to capture the large spikes much better and store them as usable power for JT, Bedini, EB, etc.

Second, in my experience, they output at a more consistent level and your circuit can stay in resonance for a much longer period of time than with a battery.  I have not seen anything about them that I do not like....so far.

Well, except for the cost but, now with a 3,000 F cap for under $30 US, that is not a problem either.  You can charge/discharge them for millions of cycles making them much more durable than a rechargeable battery.  Still not as cheap as a rechargeable energizer for a few bucks but, to me, this is the wave of the future and it will only get better.

My opinion for what it is worth.

Bill

[stprue]

Check this one out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swV6ZxCb5fw&feature=related

[The Observer]

Pirate,

Two Jobs !
What? Are you paying back Credit Cards like me?

Thankyou, Someone who agrees with me on Resonance.
                 Note... I independently found a way to light an LED with a 1.5 V without using a Joule Thief.

                             All I did was resonate an audio transformer...
                             with a simple oscillating circuit on my  Electronics Set.
                             The STEP DOWN SIDE (the secondary) lights an LED at Resonance.
                             An LED across the primary BURNS OUT !
                             
I am going to readjust my claim about the CFL and an air core coil.
A compromise of what has been discussed so far.
Without Ferromagnetic Materials, you can't light a CFL with an air core for an appreciable time without Resonating the Coil.

Your Metglass core with a Magnetic Permeability of 100,000 would work great.
        Being every time the Core is 'magnetized'.. it amplifies the Field of the coil by 100,000 times.

    B = (μ0 * μr * N * i) / l
                                        μr is the relative permeability (Magnetic Permeability) of the material within the solenoid.
                                        B is the Magnetic Field
                                        The rest are constants for any given magnetized coil.

        There is stuff that's got a Permeability of 1,000,000 (Super Perma Alloy?)
        Pretty sure this stuff could make an amazing Joule Thief.
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Jeanna,
           To understand Ferromagnetics you need to take a shrinking pill and 2 trips.
           Let's Go !

           The 1st trip is inside a 'magnet'.
                  You will notice Dipoles everywhere.    ---->   ---->   ---->
                  You see at super fast speeds, and can see 1 or 2 unpaired electrons circling the atoms.
                  You realize that each Dipole is just a simple coil creating a magnetic field...
                  Each coil is hooked up to an infinite battery.. that move the electrons around the coil.
                  You use your super strength to try to turn a dipole...You can't , they are all stuck in 1 place.
                  Finally, you say..."Get me the hell out of here" and commence a long trip.
                  On the trip, you find that every single dipole is pointed in the same direction !
                  Once on the outside you realize that all the small dipole's Magnetic Fields are adding up to a HUGE sum.

            2nd Trip is inside "anything that acts like iron in an external magnetic field"
                 The trip is very similar.
                 Dipoles... Electrons... Coils... Magnetic Fields.
                 But when you try to turn a coil... you don't even need super strength to turn it.
                                                                  It spins Freely BUT. does want to line up with the neighbors, so to speak.
                 When you decide to leave the place, you cross 1 million dipoles pointed 1 way..   
                                                                                        then 1 million pointed 90 degree off the first group...
                                                                                         then 1 million pointed 90 degree off the 2nd group...
                                                                                         then 1 million pointed 90 degree off the 3rd...
                                                                                         etc... etc... etc.       
                On the outside, you contemplate why you don't detect a Magnetic Field
               
So you used a magnet as a core in one of your first experiments...
     You should now be able to see.. that there is no way for a magnet to do anything in a coil.
      It's field remains constant no matter what you throw at it.
      And since a JT works on a changing magnetic field.. what you did essentially was create an air core.

When you put an "iron' like substance inside the coil.. you were also putting the freely rotating Magnetic Dipoles in there.
          And... under a fairly weak magnetic field, they all turn and ADD to the field of the coil.
                   
    B = (μ0 * μr * N * i) / l
                                        μr is the relative permeability Magnetic Permeability) of the material within the solenoid.
                                        B is the Magnetic Field
                                        The rest are constants for any given magnetized coil.

Pretty Amazing !!!
That Pirate's Metglass core of with a MP of 100,000 could Amplify the Coil's Field by 100,000 times.. dont you think?
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Kooler,

You say that Resonance is boring because it's been done and talked about?
Or that I am barking up very small tree?

You also claimed to have built an air core JT that lit up a CFL for a long time off of a 1.5 battery.
I don't think that's boring..
You did resonate the coil to accomplish this feat?
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MK1,

Thanks for Lunch, it was delicious.

So the "exciter coil" is actually a Resonating Air Core Coil when operated at full potential?
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Gary,

Interesting setup.. as long as those magnets don't totally saturate the torroids, you could do something.

Which brings me to Tsueng.
           Pirate knows more than me.
           I like him because he keeps trying for a goal (free energy) and really doesn't stop moving.

           If you appreciate the New Age Principle of.... Attracting what You Talk About..
               Tsueng is going to get the prize,
                                                      even it appears he arrives at the destination by means of pure luck.

           When he started a the thread"Embedded Magnets" I promptly let him know to discard that and check out a JT.
           Why?  Look at my previous post to Jeanna about how to understand Ferromagnetic Materials.
                      And why fixed magnetic dipoles (in a magnet) don't do much for you inside of a coil.
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Have a great day !
                            The Observer


           

[NickZ]

  Guys and Gal:
   Thanks for all the replies.  There is still alot of mistery to these devices that don't always add up like 2 + 2 = 4.  There is a bit of magic still to be discovered.   
   I notice that in trying to make a Jt self run while lighting some Led bulbs, there is still some energy lost somewhere, but it may be possible to resolve that by making the circuit more efficient, or stronger still.  Or by reducing the amount of charge that is going back into the run batteries.  Already the In4007 diode that I'm using does restrict the charge that is going to the run batteries, a bit.  And has allowed me to keep the test Jt running now for two weeks now.  I do have to manually move or swap the batteries in a particular way, so a simple switch may not work the same.
  I think that if I can wind a coil to produce more energy output than is needed, that the energy lost can be made up for to some degree, maybe,  worth a try...
  Jeanna, Bill and all, thanks for your replies.   
  I will try capacitors instead of the batteries. I tried to make a small toroid to fit inside my 16 led emergency back up light which uses a big capacitor,  but I had no luck with the one I used. I'll make another a bit bigger next time. I'm trying to see if I can make it light up for longer amount of time.  It started at 2 hours of back up light, and now its been going for about 3 1/2 hours without the JT circuit. It seems that the more they work the longer the light last.
   There are many new Leds lights comming out on the internet now, like on Ebay. Many are very cheap and affordable.  I think that charging a 12 battery from a 12 volt solar panel, to run several 12v JTs circuits may be a very affordable way to keep them all charged and running without any loss in power, even 24/7.  I am already using the light from these devices to light my house at night.  They make great night lights for the bathroom, table lamp lights, accent lighting, and eventually even more.
The newer Led bulbs are just starting to come out on the market here in Costa Rica.
Can't wait to try the .5 - 10 watt 12v superbrights Leds.
I have a feeling that if a Jt that can light a CFL, it would have no problem lighting these higher output Led lights. Even though they are a higher voltage and need a much higher current than the 3 volt Leds. 
  I particularly like the warm white leds, 140 degree ones.
   Check the link below.
  http://cgi.ebay.com/20-PC-0-5-Watt-StrawHat-8mm-140-WARM-White-LED-90Kmcd-/250448852092?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a4fea347c
   

[Mk1]

@The Observer \ and anyone willing to hear my rant .

As far as resonance goes most people have only scratch the surface , i will make a new topic soon on the physical resonance property , something that is hidden because of the way we use electronics to artificially tune the freq .

All mater has a specific freq , like any conductor has a freq , depending on the amplitude of the signal , will either make it vibrate or destroy it , like the crystal glass broken by sound , there is the half as way of doing it like the mythbusters shooting any freq at any amplitude and looking at the results , that way they have as much chance the win the lottery jackpot ...

This could have been done under 5 minutes , first make the crystal sing with you finger and reproduce the same freq , and voila ...

All i am saying is that any solid mass of mater will react the same to the presence of it fundamental freq .

We tune our circuit with caps and resistor , and never look at the wire ?

I bet there is a way to find the freq for each piece of wire ...

Anyway i will eventually star a tread .

And also put the same type of strings on both guitars electric strings are not made to be loud they are made to make good eddy current for the pickups and are usually smaller other reason for less volume . I know you are a fan of resonance but the key is not the resonance chamber , its resonance it self . The guitar is a great tool for understanding resonance but only a tool . Tune all the strings to the same note pluck one of them and all of them will sing and start moving that is the answer more or less depending on size , now imagine all the strings being the same size and tuned the same note pluck one again they will all vibrate as strongly , using electronics is and artificial means of tuning circuit like small strings in the first experiment it vibrates but barely .

Mark