Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma

[Foggy-Notion]

There is counter torque when the disc and magnet spin together when drawing current off the disc.  I once thought as you do.  Build it and find out for yourself or use ampere's old force law to do the calculations. 

I (will) be building it, I (wont) be using your convinient corrupt laws

The conductive coating on the neo magnet is the same as having a conductive disc and magnet rotating together on the same axle. 

It is not the same has having a FERRITE magnet next to a disc.

You say the disc and magnet has minimal to no counter torque when they rotate together and then go and say the conductive neo's would be a magnetic brake (that is a big contradiction in your statement). 

What part of "FERRITE" do you not understand?
You see folks?  He goes on and on pretending he didn't see what I wrote,
(And) goes on and on with misleading advice while trying to sound "expert"

The strongest and biggest magnet you can find is the correct magnet.  If you don't want to use the conductive coating on the neo's, then put a thin insulating material between the coating of the neo magnet and disc. 

No, the correct magnet is the strongest FERRITE magnet you can find.
Don't use a Neo at all, this guy is trying to steer people wrong.

A thicker disc would be better than the thin conductive coating on the neo, especially since we're talking about drawing high amps.

True, but the devil tells some truth to sell some lies.

It would be an engineering nightmare with extreme losses to connect all of those discs in series to gain voltage on one shaft if it's not done properly.

The same could be said for picking one's nose, what is your point? 
You try to make it sound difficult when it is not. 
This guy desperitly does not want us to succeed,
your cover is blown dude.

His Method of Op is to pretend fight with what he calls "Naysayers"
So he looks like one of us, and then steers us wrong when he can.
At least that is the feeling I'm gathering here.

[gravityblock]

I (will) be building it, I (wont) be using your convinient corrupt laws

It is not the same has having a FERRITE magnet next to a disc.




What part of "FERRITE" do you not understand?
You see folks?  He goes on and on pretending he didn't see what I wrote,
(And) goes on and on with misleading advice while trying to sound "expert"



No, the correct magnet is the strongest FERRITE magnet you can find.
Don't use a Neo at all, this guy is trying to steer people wrong.
True, but the devil tells some truth to sell some lies.


The same could be said for picking one's nose, what is your point? 
You try to make it sound difficult when it is not. 
This guy desperitly does not want us to succeed,
your cover is blown dude.

His Method of Op is to pretend fight with what he calls "Naysayers"
So he looks like one of us, and then steers us wrong when he can.
At least that is the feeling I'm gathering here.

A conductive coating on a neo magnet that is rotating is the same as having a disc glued to a ferrite magnet and rotating together.  Please enlighten and educated us to why a ferrite magnet is better to use than a neo magnet.  Don't tell me it's because the neo has a conductive coating on it and will cause it to act as a magnetic brake, because that is the same as having a conductive disc glued to the ferrite magnet and will act as a magnetic brake just like the neo when you're drawing current.

You have a ferrite magnet with a conductive disc attached to it, then you have a neo magnet with a conductive coating attached to it.  What will be the difference in the results?  Why is a weaker ferrite magnet better than a neo?

I'm an Op because I disagree with you about the neo and ferrite magnets?  LOL.  You asked questions, then after an attempt is given to answer your questions, then all of the sudden you know the answers and I'm an Op.  I won't even try to understand that, because the is very irrational thinking on your part.  You're a homopolar newbie IMO.

This is a good read but I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears because you won't even consider someone else's view, http://www.andrijar.com/fte/index.html


GB

[keithturtle]

This is a good read but I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears because you won't even consider someone else's view, http://www.andrijar.com/fte/index.html

Thanks for the link.   Good stuff.    Indeed, building it will provide some answers, and generate more questions.  Talking about it will only further necessitate building it to provide some answers.

Turtle, building it

[Foggy-Notion]

Ferrite magnets

Hard ferrite (ceramic) magnets were developed in the 1960's as a low cost alternative to metallic magnets. They are made from strontium carbonate and iron oxide both of which are readily available and low in cost.


Key words above?   Ferrites are not considered "Metallic Magnets" though they use some iron particals the particals are not connected to each other, which would allow the magnet to actually cinduct electricity, like a Neo.  We dont want that.  That at least is what I was told.

The positive benefits of ferrite magnets are

• They retain their magnetism for a very long time.

• They have a high stability and do not demagnetise very easily even in high temperatures. ****

• They are relatively low cost to produce.

• They can be manufactured to be flexible, by mixing the ferrite with plasticized rubber compounds, which creates a bendy and pliable magnet.

The main drawback of ferrite magnets is that they are quite fragile and tend to break easily, so they should be handled with care.


Neodymium magnets

Neodymium magnets are also referred to as NdFeB magnets, or NIB, because they are composed mainly of Neodymium (Nd), Iron (Fe) and Boron (B). They are a relatively new invention, first manufactured in 1984 and have only recently become affordable for everyday use.

Neodymium rare earth magnets have a high resistance to demagnetization, unlike most other types of magnets. They will not lose their magnetization around other magnets or if dropped. They will however, begin to lose strength if they are heated above their maximum operating temperature, which is 176°F (80°C)  Thus if your copper or aluminum disc N-machine will get hot according to Moe, he can't have it both ways.

Further more they are conductive solid metal, (not a ceramic-metal mix like Ferrites)  Ferrite (are) a ceramic metal mix, which will not conduct an electrical current, nor create the problems associated with that when it comes to certtain applications.  This spook disinfo agent knows that quite well!  This place gives me the freakin willys.
Even a coated neo exhibits conductive properties, or behavior assiciated with same.

Neodymium magnets also have some limitations due to their corrosion behaviour. In humid applications, a protective coating is highly recommended. Coatings which have been used successfully include E-coat (a liquid dip epoxy coating), dry electrostatic spray epoxy, nickel plating and combinations of these coatings. Changes in composition and processing over the past several years have resulted in significant improvements in corrosion resistance and high temperature performance. 

But such coatings and the magent base itself can also interfere with certain electrical behavior.  It is my understanding that though a Neo is stronger, you want to use Ferrites.




MAGNETIC BRAKING
Roll your Neodymium magnet cylinder down an inclined wooden plane. Now roll it down a piece of aluminum "U"-shaped extrusion (1/2" x 1/2", or whatever size fits your magnet.) The magnet will move much slower in the aluminum. And if you affix a couple of thick aluminum plates to different spots on the extrusion (or even below the wood!) you will see obvious braking effects.
Key word "Neo"
...maybe it is just the stregth, but i know Neos are conductive inside and Ferrite are not.I could be wrong about alll this,,
my advice is to try both and compare results.


FEEL THE DRAG DIRECTLY
Get a thick slab of aluminum or even copper (thicker than 1/4".) Hold an NIB (Neodymium) magnet in your hand and slide it back and forth. You can definitely feel the "syrupy" friction caused by electromagnetic inductive braking effect. If you rub the magnet back and forth for long enough, you will even feel the metal plate's temperature begin to rise. (copper discs or Aluminum disc such as in N-machines will react the same, both being alloys.)
Source: http://amasci.com/amateur/neodymium.html

Copper Losses The power lost in the form of heat in the armature winding of a generator is known as COPPER LOSS. Heat is generated any time current flows in a conductor. Copper loss is an I2R loss, which increases as current increases. The amount of heat generated is also proportional to the resistance of the conductor. The resistance of the conductor varies directly with its length and inversely with its cross- sectional area. Copper loss is minimized in armature windings by using large diameter wire. Q14. What causes copper losses?

Eddy Current Losses The core of a generator armature is made from soft iron, which is a conducting material with desirable magnetic characteristics. Any conductor will have currents induced in it when it is rotated in a magnetic field. These currents that are induced in the generator armature core are called EDDY CURRENTS. The power dissipated in the form of heat, as a result of the eddy currents, is considered a loss. Eddy currents, just like any other electrical currents, are affected by the resistance of the material in which the currents flow.


The resistance of any material is inversely proportional to its cross-sectional area. Figure 1-11, view A, shows the eddy currents induced in an armature core that is a solid piece of soft iron. Figure 1-11, view B, shows a soft iron core of the same size, but made up of several small pieces insulated from each other. This process is called lamination.

The currents in each piece of the laminated core are considerably less than in the solid core because the resistance of the pieces is much higher. (Resistance is inversely proportional to cross-sectional area.) The currents in the individual pieces of the laminated core are so small that the sum of the individual currents is much less than the total of eddy currents in the solid iron core.
source: http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14177/css/14177_24.htm


I'm exhausted from arguing with Oil Company Disinfo Agents, they would destroy the whole earth for a pocket full of gold, which tells you something about their intellifgence, which is why it is so easy to expose them. but yes  after a while one can get paranoid andor just come to expect them, around each corner because after all, that is where they lurk. but you have already said other things that clearly pin you as disinfo in my eyes, If you're not one, than don't take offense.


Good day.

[gravityblock]

@foggy-Notion:

I'm not a disinfo agent and I do take offense.  I have done extensive research in this area.  I am only sharing with you my own research, experiments, and observations in addition to others on this forum. 

I think you said in a previous post that not much information or research has been done on the HPG/HPM.  This is not true.  The HPG does have OU properties and can be proven mathematically, but the counter torque kills the OU properties. 

Doubling the radii of the disc and magnets increase the output power to the fourth power while the input requirements only increase to the square thereof. 

The problem is the counter torque increases to the fourth power also and this is what needs to be overcome in order to achieve OU.  I would love to be proven wrong on this and I hope it gives you motivation to prove it wrong.  This is my opinion only and you have a right to your own opinion, but don't call me a disinfo agent because our opinions are not the same.

Take care and good luck,

GB