Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind

[Cloxxki]

TS
The sound isn't working on my computer where I'm staying ,
whats with that forever car??
what claims are they making?
Clo and others have been suggesting this is possible[making power while underway]

does this work??[forever car]

Chet

It looks like a funny hoax, and I feel stupid for taking it seriously for all those 10 seconds.

I was just thinking of a railway system again. Carts with props and airfoils should do nicely. Underlocking wheels/rails, of course, to deal with (wanted and harvested) crosswinds. With proper computer controls, optimal use would always be made of the wind. Track provides stability required, like the ultimate keel. Airfoils and props could be rather large compared to the 8-person capsule. Huge thrust, tiny overhead. And yes, excess to be fed into the grid. Grid tapped for climbing hills, crossing low wind sections, etc. Also for direct head wind situations, which would be the sole issue.
Automatic distance keeping to prevent wind-stealing and collisions.

It would never be allowed, of course. Someone would tell it's too expensive. 130 year gain back of costs. Except, people are powering their houses with turbines made from scrap. It's not rocket science, it's wind science. The wind was given to us to figure out :-)

[TechStuf]

Study the Velomobile of Stuttgart's.  It is designed to provide direct capture no matter the vehicle's orientation.  The fact that it can do 64% directly upwind says much.  (alot, actually)

Perhaps there is a ratio to be found, regarding how fast the relative wind speed must be in order for the proper vehicle to capture enough energy to achieve something even more remarkable...


TS

[Cloxxki]

Study the Velomobile of Stuttgart's.  It is designed to provide direct capture no matter the vehicle's orientation.  The fact that it can do 64% directly upwind says much.  (alot, actually)

Perhaps there is a ratio to be found, regarding how fast the relative wind speed must be in order for the proper vehicle to capture enough energy to achieve something even more remarkable...


TS

I think such vehicles show that a turbine or prop can have lower drag than it has torque or thrust. I bet the Black Bird can reach 100% of wind speed, upwind. Apparent wind speed (2x head wind) is then the same as DDW at 3x wind speed.

The next step would be to start a chain reaction where a "simple" turbine on the roof turns into a jet-like howler, with huge thrust which can be harvested. This step, as much as I want it, seems very implausible.

The Black Bird defies logic, not laws of nature as we know them. It use it's attained speed to take yet more energy out of the wind. I've searched my life (passively) for such a solution, but others had already invented it before my birth, and the BB team put it into life size, manned propulsion.

In my opinion, Black Bird shows that humanity's main occupation seems to be wasting wind energy. Letting it fly past, litterally. Even if we let it feather a wind turbine, some 150m tall, behind, the win is till blowing significantly. And the wind mill to exploit that wind, is not there.
Like being part of a thirsty village, and taking a cappucino cup to the nearby creek, and try to feed the village. There, people have glasses and straws to drink from. All those straws would better be used for a pipeline to get the water to the village. Inside the pipeline, it can't evaporate.

Anyway, vehicles CAN be largely or completely wind powered, AND quick. I firmly believe with some funding could make a car sized vehicle that goes around like a proper car, driving 2-3 hours per day, and never be on the grid. Smart aerodynamic adjustments can make it sail through trafic while staying within the white lines, not even swerving.
A rail system would be easier though, and provide more hours per day, just at hard to predict speeds. And, to add to my rail system idea, 2 carts headed the same direction for a longer distance should be coupled, to share their frontal overhead surface, and almost double their thrust. The front's props would be moved outside, the rear's up, for instance, to not share wind path. With side winds, not need for tricks, each airfoil package will work optimally. Faster for similar reasons why inline tandem bikes are faster than 2 single ones.

Think of it. In sail boots, the limit in speed is pretty much the height of the sail, which is dependent on the keel's stability. I don't sail, but that's how I see it.
Now imagine an infinitely stable keel, with barely any drag (a railway sytem that fixes the vehicle in place, oreventing it to tip). Sails could be seriously tall, to help overcome the overhead wheel/wind friction. And being seriously wide as well, they could be angled steeply in the wind, bring huge ground speeds.

If there's a stretch of deserted railroad out there, through a valley for instance with predictable wind directions, it would be interesting to investigate the actual geomtry of the railtrack to see if a vehicle could be designed to fix itself to it. Wheels ON the rails as usual, and an axtra set coming from the outside, UNDER the rails. It may take a huge grinding job to prepare the track for a proof of concept ride, but you'll get my idea.

[ramset]

TS
Sweet
Ventomobile Wind Powered Vehicle
At 15 MPH "into the wind"These guys should break the google speed downwind record![Tsk Tsk.....]

Clo you have a wonderful imagination Bud![the rail thing would be cool]
but whats the BB bit?

Chet

[TechStuf]

Just came across this:

http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2008/03/31/jet-engine-like-wind-turbine-4-times-more-efficient/

It seems I am less original than I had tentatively given myself credit for.....Their design is eminently scalable and is quite similar in principle, to my own.


TS