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AC motor questions

Started by forest, January 08, 2009, 05:51:21 PM

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nueview

i need to write this today for several reasons one being that this may answer another problem i am having.
charlie you stated that when current can't flow a voltage is developed surely this would develope a current at right anlge to the inducing force or flow to the voltage which is it faraday or lentz law that takes presodence in these field reactions.
faradays law states that currents moving in the same direction tend to magneticly couple and or pull together while currents moving in opposite directions tend to move apart. there is a law governing magnetic fields that states that a magnetic field is strongest when its lenght is least or at its minimum. so it would be logical to assume that currents moving in opposite directions which repell and scatter each other would be driven by voltages of charges that don't move in its simplest form you arrive at zero point energy so guess we just proved mr bearden correct. we could then assume that all matter would be constructed from a single charge or singularity from which all matter derives. and from which all matter can be destroyed by causing this charge to move. from this point it gets real complicated real fast and very complex so lets just let it go for now.
phased currents and voltages are then displaced entities allowing a new structuring to begin a form of redistribution of energy not always accountable for within a given system is this what you are stating?

Charlie_V

@nueview

Faradays Law just says that a coil will produce a voltage when the coil sees a changing magnetic field.  Lenz's Law determines the direction the voltage sets up (which ultimately determines which way the current flows when the coil is loaded). 

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow you fully though.  I think what your asking is shouldn't charges move to make the voltage across the open coil when the coil sees a changing magnetic field.  And, why doesn't the moving charge produce a magnetic field when it does so?  My answer to that is I have no idea.  I suppose that when the coil is open the current and voltage are 90 degrees out of phase? So if a magnetic field is produced from the charges moving in an open circuit, it occurs when the magnet is in a the zero position and thus does not effect the movement of the magnet?  I've thought about this but have never been able to imagine it in my mind. 

Quoteit would be logical to assume that currents moving in opposite directions which repell and scatter each other would be driven by voltages of charges that don't move in its simplest form you arrive at zero point energy so guess we just proved mr bearden correct

I'll have to think on that, it is very interesting.  As far as Bearden, I've never been able to follow him.  However, it should be only natural that energy can be created because energy exists.  How did it get here if it cannot be created?  The only logical explanation is that it is creatable - we only need to find out how.




forest

I have one additional question about Lenz's law in AC motor. As I understood rotating magnetic field in stator induce rotating magnetic field in rotor, first by inducing current in rotor.This magnetic field in rotor has opposite polarity changes and a small lag depending on load put on shaft.
Is that correct ?

How this induced current in rotor looks like ?

Charlie_V

@forest

Your describing an induction motor.  Not all electric machines use induction.  Basically an induction motor has shorted coils in the rotor.  Just like the case above where I was describing the force that you feel when you move an aluminum ring over a magnet, this is similar.  The stator coils produce a changing magnetic field (much like the moving magnet in my earlier example).  The shorted coils in the rotor try to oppose the changing magnetic field of the stator.  As they oppose, it produces movement of the rotor.  The rotor will start to get faster and faster until the speed of the rotor matches the rotating magnetic field of the stator.  When this happens, the rotor coils no longer see a changing magnetic field because they are spinning at the same rate that the stator is energized.  The stator looks like a static field, induction stops and the rotor slows down a little.  Once slowed down a little, the process starts again.  So at no load there is a slight difference between the rotating magnetic field of the stator and the speed of the rotor because of friction.  When you load the rotor, it becomes harder to rotate and the slip gets bigger.  The induced current looks like the stator current but it goes in the opposite direction and is slightly less in magnitude.

nueview

charlie faradays law has several parts as does lentz law so to throw out any part is not prudent. if two magnetic fields are rotating out of phase with each other is there a voltage between the two i say yes are the currents in the same direction  possibly not else what is back emf can the two cancel yes do they have to probably not if used properly. lentz law works great for copper inducters or should i say conductors but isn't worth a thing for iron conducters or plastic do these not have emf's and magnetic fields of course they do so do faradays first laws apply to these fields were lentz law does not yes lentz law was for the defining of an electrical system not the whole system faraday was looking for the nature of energy not the system so my questions still stand from above. can i prove my questions yes
i am very much interested in getting this write as have seen to much to demonstrait that there is another answer and it is much simpler an answer so don't resite a law without including an exception where one applies.conduction and field values in copper allow lenz law to work but it is only good that far.