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Overunity Machines Forum



aluminium + sodium hydroxide + water = aluminium hydroxide???? help please

Started by Hydro-Cell, January 19, 2009, 03:58:35 PM

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Hydro-Cell

hi guys and thank you for your responses

just to clear a few things up.

ok here goes.

the control method is sorted, i am able to distribute aluminium powder in 10gram doses at anytime i want to administer it.
the messy goo, is under control, the leftovers are collected in a cell that when full and removed from the reactor will close itself. it cannot be opened unless in the reactor!!
the Hydrogen released is 99% pure, during the opereation of the reactor it allows small amounts of air into the stream, this was an oversight on my part and is being worked out.

the waste leftover will be sent to companies or factories where it can be converted back to aluminium, i have read that the leftover product is aluminium sulphate (correct if wrong)
i have also read that aluminium sulphate is 1 step away from being aluminium as far as reactions go, by electrolysing the aluminium sulphate i belive it will convert back to aluminium (not sure on this, only scratched the surface)

i have access to machinery etc to turn scrap aluminium into aluminium powder/pellets. at the current price of scrap it is costing me about 80p per kg. at this price of aluminium the reactor can provide approx 1200 litres of hydrogen for 80p. even when the price of scrap was £1.30 per kg it would only cost approx £2.50 per kg.
in terms of running a small engine (just a for instance) 1200 litres of hydrogen will supply a 200cc engine for 4 hours. it will also consume 3 litres of petrol.
on this basis at present the aluminium is 1/3 the cost of petrol, when the price of scrap goes up it will pretty much break even on current cost of petrol. but as always petrol will also rise in price.

due to aluminium being recyclable in theory we should never be able to run out of fuel.

the reactor can hold upto 10kg providing potentially 12000litres of hydrogen, or run a smart car for approx 12 hours potentially 750 miles on £15

the reactor will be fitted to either a fuel cell (very expensive) or a free piston engine (cost effective) free piston engines are about 50% efficient and can be designed to run on hydrogen, output is electricity only.

please feel free to give input 

ResinRat2

Hi Hydro-cell,

The leftover waste product will be aluminum-hydroxide with sodium salts in the water solution.  The sodium will be attracted to the aluminum hydroxide and form sodium aluminum hydroxide. I am not sure where you got the aluminum sulfate information. It might be for a different reaction, maybe a sulfuric acid solution used to make a hydrogen cell with, but there is no sulfer in your reaction.

The waste can probably be treated with an acid wash and the aluminum precipitated out. I haven't looked it up but it can probably be done in this way. I am sure if you tell the reclaiming company what was done that they would know the procedure to reclaim the aluminum.

Good luck,

Dave (RR2)
Research is the only place in a company where you can continually have failures and still keep your job.

I knew immediately that was where I belonged.

Hydro-Cell

hi resinrat2

cheers for the info, i got mixed up with the aluminium sulphete. got too many experiments going on.

i was reading a paper on NaOH safety, it says coming into contact with aluminium, zinc, or tin will release hydrogen.

is it likely that tin will allow the production of more hydrogen??? as it is cheaper its just a thought.

was thinking of maybe a mixture of tin and aluminium or something.

if you can put a reaction here... aswell as the hydrogen yeilded from 1kg of tin i would be very gratefull.

i also found out that the sodium aluminium hydroxide is known as sodium tetrahydroxoaluminate.. however there is very little information on this. can anyone shed a little light on this???
need to know if it is toxic, harmful, burns skin etc.

please dont give answers that you "think" may apply, im looking for solid answers, a datasheet would be good or some form of coshh sheet.

cheers
chris

IronHead

Once the process is completed simply turn the Alumina back to the manufactures. For all that you turn in that will be the amount that does not have to be mined . And mining is the most costly part of their process. Recycle

I have read that when you use this process that you get out 100% of the energy that was put into the manufacturing process not counting the mining and if you recycle there is no mining for that quantity .

sparks

      It's not the mining costs as much as the energy needed to extract the aluminum from it's ground state mineral bonding.   They use naoh in this process and electrolysis to precipitate the aluminum.   Would make a nice battery though especially if you use high voltage lowamp electrolysis to precipitate the aluminum.
Your going head to head with lithium technologies and other battery systems so it may be a difficult road.
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