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Kelving generator to separate salt ions

Started by Creativity, February 02, 2009, 06:17:20 PM

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Shanti

My question would be how do you get the (electric) energy from the Na Cl recombination?
According to my understanding one would need something like a fuel cell for this (similar as for the recombination of H and O).
Or how exactly should this work?

E.g. if you have some water with too much O in it and some water with too much H in it, you also can't just put two electrodes in the two compartments and will get some current. You will have to recombine them under controlled special circumstances, so that you get the recombination energy like you want it. This is what happens in a Fuel Cell at the membrane.
It would certainly be easier to get energy from them, e.g. by precipitating them out of the water and then burning them together...(you certainly already saw burning some Na in a Cl atmosphere in school, quite common demonstration in schools)

Creativity

good question,i like it!constructive :) although i have no direct sound answer to it,i m sure we can elaborate something.

recently i bumped across this beauty:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-sulfur_battery

Quite inspirational.At least shows there are some membranes for Na+ ions already discovered.

Some other problem we may have, is how high concentration of Na+ can we get in water, before it will rip it of and become NaOH with H2 gassing out of the bucket.Molten NaCl would go around this problem probably,with cost of complexer design.I also don't like Cl2 gassing out.We don't have to stick to NaCl neither.Maybe NaOH would be a better choice(at least no toxic gases to handle).

What do u think would happen i we used (molten if we want to get rid of H2 gassing out) NaOH instead?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaOH
seams like some membrane exists already http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafion.
Blues it through your outstanding life,leaving more than just footsteps behind (1999 B-stok by me).

By being intensively responsive to what others say,i do run a risk: I open myself up to the opinions of others.i will,at times, have a great understanding for their opinion.Sometimes,i will even change my own opinion because i realize that the other person is right.This "risk" i do not run if i am unresponsive to what others say.

Creativity

On a second or third thought :) i will explain how i see it for Hg.There will be only one cup in Kelvin generator and only one dripping end of main container.Ring is negatively charged to attract Hg2+ ions.Cup will be connected with a wire via load with the main container.

Main container is an Anode.Ring-drop may be seen as a membrane in fuel cell.It is so because only positive charges are allowed to pass it and electrons have to travel via container wall,wire and load to reach the cup.Cup will be the cathode where Hg2+ gets it electrons back.Electron passed though the load and delivered work.

In this way u get the gravity battery,directly converting gravity into electricity.

Strangely it looks like OU to me.Because every 200g of Hg delivers 2*96500 Coulomb of charge.It is 53.6 Ah with voltage of
Hg2 + 2eâˆ' â‡,, 2 Hg(l)     +0.80V

that yelds 0.8*53.6=42.88 Wh in J it is 3600*42.88= 154368 J

and only 2J to lift it back to 1m!

Ok molten Na could be a better choice than toxic Hg.

I have spread it on some physicall forums.Maybe they will validate it.
Blues it through your outstanding life,leaving more than just footsteps behind (1999 B-stok by me).

By being intensively responsive to what others say,i do run a risk: I open myself up to the opinions of others.i will,at times, have a great understanding for their opinion.Sometimes,i will even change my own opinion because i realize that the other person is right.This "risk" i do not run if i am unresponsive to what others say.

Creativity

another version for NaOH solution in water.Setup just like for Hg.

Na+ gets together with water drops to the cup.Na+ takes OH away from water with  H+ ions as a result:
Na(+) + H20->NaOH + H(+)

H+ travels to the electrode (or cup side)and receives the electron from the main container via wire and load.H2 degasses from the cup.This at 0V

In main container 4 of OH- give out 4 electrons from water and gassout oxygen.:

O2(g) + 2 H2O + 4 eâˆ' â‡,, 4 OHâˆ'(aq) this at 0.4 V

Blues it through your outstanding life,leaving more than just footsteps behind (1999 B-stok by me).

By being intensively responsive to what others say,i do run a risk: I open myself up to the opinions of others.i will,at times, have a great understanding for their opinion.Sometimes,i will even change my own opinion because i realize that the other person is right.This "risk" i do not run if i am unresponsive to what others say.