Toroidal Motor

[Low-Q]

Yes, I may need to read back a little.

having the magnets in repulsion makes an interesting field.

Someone here on this forum mentioned placing a disk beetween what you have and that it won't create any bemf, but I doubt that - it really doesn't matter where the field is, if there's rotation cutting it, it's going to create eddy currents.

This device does look interesting though.

Someone mentioned in a debunking steorn thread that any permanent magnets will eventually loose their magnetism to heat or whatever, this is true - so, removing the magnetic aspect from the moving current should extend the life of the mentioned magnet.

Here's something interesting, it could provide you with an inversion design...  these section, are made magnetized through their thickness, so that the inside or the outside is north or south, them may ...well, make what you will of this.

technically, they could all be made to fit in, north oriented out, south in, but they would have to be forced together.

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=165

Demagnetization cools down a magnet. This tehnology is used to cool new fridges which is practically noiseless when they work. A ringmagnet is magnetized in one part of it and heats up right there. This heat is transferred to the surroundings, and when the magnetized part is cooled down by the surroundings, it is then is demagnetized, in some liquid, and the liquid cools down. This cool liquid is used to cool the fridge.

So if a permanentmagnet motor of some kind works, it will also probably cool down due to demagnetization - as demagnetization may be the reason why they should work.

Vidar

[gravityblock]

Demagnetization cools down a magnet. This tehnology is used to cool new fridges which is practically noiseless when they work. A ringmagnet is magnetized in one part of it and heats up right there. This heat is transferred to the surroundings, and when the magnetized part is cooled down by the surroundings, it is then is demagnetized, in some liquid, and the liquid cools down. This cool liquid is used to cool the fridge.

So if a permanentmagnet motor of some kind works, it will also probably cool down due to demagnetization - as demagnetization may be the reason why they should work.

Vidar

A friend of mine, who works for whirlpool, said the new refrigerators actually heat to cool the fridge........This is exactly what you are saying.  He also said the freezer is on the bottom and the refrigerator is on the top.  I may have misunderstood him though.

[jadaro2600]

Strange - ..I though that those new fridges were made with peltier cells.

Also, ...what I'm refering to is a gradual decrease over time - heat causes a rapid decrease over time, additionally,  heat is what makes the rotoverter technology obsolete / useless after a few minutes - only good for busrt processes.

What I initially refer to is, not using a permanent magnet in the rotor - as interesting as this may be.  Removeing it it from the flow of current or preemtively cooling it.

Seebeck / Peltier devices are good for this, ...this is what most of those new compressorless fridges are made of.

[broli]

One can debate about the demagnetization of the magnets in these setups. But if it can produce 10kw continuously for even a week then demagnetization is not an issue as some of that energy can be used to re magnetize it. In the end the best solution is probably using an electro-magnet with a high permeable core instead of a PM. In this setup the core would rotate and the electromagnet stays stationary. This way the magnetic field is energized continuously and demagnetization will never happen.

Btw if you want a lenzless generator all you have to do is rotate the windings WITH the magnet. When the windings are generating current they produce a counter torque in the opposite direction of initial rotation. But if the magnets are rotating with the windings then the reaction torque (newton's third law) on the magnets will rotate with the rotation. Thus these two forces cancel out and you have lenzless generation of electricity. But I've been speculating that the reaction force on the magnets is a bit weaker than the action force on the conductor. Thus it means that the counter torque on the conductor will win and will stop the rotation. But this also means that anti gravity (unidirectional force) could be possible  . Either way the result will be cool.

[Low-Q]

One can debate about the demagnetization of the magnets in these setups. But if it can produce 10kw continuously for even a week then demagnetization is not an issue as some of that energy can be used to re magnetize it. In the end the best solution is probably using an electro-magnet with a high permeable core instead of a PM. In this setup the core would rotate and the electromagnet stays stationary. This way the magnetic field is energized continuously and demagnetization will never happen.

Btw if you want a lenzless generator all you have to do is rotate the windings WITH the magnet. When the windings are generating current they produce a counter torque in the opposite direction of initial rotation. But if the magnets are rotating with the windings then the reaction torque (newton's third law) on the magnets will rotate with the rotation. Thus these two forces cancel out and you have lenzless generation of electricity. But I've been speculating that the reaction force on the magnets is a bit weaker than the action force on the conductor. Thus it means that the counter torque on the conductor will win and will stop the rotation. But this also means that anti gravity (unidirectional force) could be possible  . Either way the result will be cool.

Regardless of your numberless times of explanation to me, I still have a feeling that a both rotating winding AND magnet in the SAME direction will NOT generate electricity. There is no flux to cross. I believe strongly this is the same as believing that this generator will produce energy just by walking around it when the whole thing is stationary - it appears to be the magnet/coil that is spinning, but the truth is that you are walking around it. See?

When you load the coil (Rotary magnet, stationary coil), it will "drag" the flux in the magnet with it. This drag is a counterforce that will prevent the magnet from spinning. I general, you will allways have Lenz law  acting as long there is energy taken out of the system. If you only measure voltage (No load) there is no Lenz law that counterforce either. You will also have a Lenzless generator if the flux is able to find an alternative path when you load it. However, loading it will result in a massive voltage drop, and left there is literally no energy left to counterforce the system by Lenz law.

You can test this just by moving a magnet around in a toroid transformer. You will measure voltage, but loading it will end up in allmost no voltage, and therefor still no (allmost) counterforce by Lenz law - because the load will force the flux from the magnet to choose an alternative path in the toroids iron core. And when the flux evens out at full load, there is no longer voltage output as you have a perfect counterbalance between two equal but opposite flux crossing the windings.

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