Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant

[stgpcm]

I have taken not of it, and it confirms you are failing to acount or the radial resultant force.

you are ignoring part of the system.

Please note, I have shown 3 independent methods for calculating the system all of which agree.

if you wish to make the extraordinary claim that the single method (and hence unverified) you've used is correct you will need to demonstrate the error in all 3 of mine.

I acknowledge the simple case I've presented isn't identical to the Abeling wheel, but the maths used is to analyse them is the same maths. Proving the simple model isn't a perpetuum mobile doesn't say anything about the Abeling wheel, it only lets us say we are more confident in our maths.

[Omnibus]

@stgpcm,

Study @eisenficker2000's illustration more.

[stgpcm]

@stgpcm,

Study @eisenficker2000's illustration more.

eisenficker posted those to show how the maths was done.
I fully understand how the maths is being done.

The right of the two green arrows in the first diagram shows the force used to develop torque on the wheel. This force is being balanced by the acceleration of the wheel.

What is happening to the force depicted by the left of the two green arrows? (the radial component)

no amount of studying of the diagram will tell me what you are doing with it, because nothing is being done with it. If nothing is being done with it, it will cause the weight to accelerate from the centre of the wheel.

[hansvonlieven]

The counter-forces that develop as a result of the scissor action are practically incalculable.

True, one can get an idea but in the real world there are too many variables to give meaningful results. Material composition, surface condition, dimensions, lubricants used etc. all influence the behaviour. Only experiment and measurement are capable of giving accurate data under these conditions.

This is not to say that maths are useless in this situation but they do give little more than an indication.

Hans von Lieven

[stgpcm]

The counter-forces that develop as a result of the scissor action are practically incalculable.

True, one can get an idea but in the real world there are too many variables to give meaningful results. Material composition, surface condition, dimensions, lubricants used etc. all influence the behaviour. Only experiment and measurement are capable of giving accurate data under these conditions.

Absolutely:
Materials are not perfectly inelastic, so they will deform slightly as forces are applied to them. This deformation takes energy from the system to occur, and generates heat as it occurs. if you are lucky, when the force is reduced, the materials return to their original shape, returning the energy to the system as they do so, this also generates heat, and the chances are the energy won't actually be returned usefully.

The frame is not entirely rigid. all the forces you dump into the guides/axle don't just vanish, they flex the frame, causing the geometry to shift again, and generating heat as they do so. if you are lucky, it will return to it's original shape, and return the energy in a useful way.

Friction can be calculated, but mu-r assumes that mu is constant despite variations in heat and pressure. The use of bearings and lubricants makes these calculations much harder because they are more susceptible to variations in those. (they make the wheel turn much easier though, so they might be worthwhile at some level)

The earth is not of infinite mass. It's close enough, but is a source of error.

Scissor forces are particulary bad for these sources of error, as the component forces can be very large, but all of these are sources of loss to the system, so they reduce the efficiency of your real world device.

Losses to the system are really only an issue of you manage to create an over-unity machine in the first place - if your friction calculations tell you your wheel given an initial push will stop after 100 turns, and in the real world it happens after 90, does it really matter? It's only when you have designed a device that accelerates turn on turn in the absence of friction, air resistance etcetera, that the practical aspects of engineering come into play.

If the machine isn't overunity in principle, no amount of smoothing and greasing are going to make it so. As they say, "you can't polish a t***"

This is not to say that maths are useless in this situation but they do give little more than an indication.

It's true, a week in the workshop will save billions of MIPS worth of analysis, and hopefully leave you with a beautiful device. It will also let you check your maths was accurate.