MylowHJ Replication - Discussion

[Michelinho]

Hi all,

Just did 2 pictures of the floppy round magnet with alternating fields all around.

The first picture is the unmodded fields and the second a strip of flexible magnetic strip applied inside the center along the periphery. Keep a strip handy to reset your viewing film by passing it over.

Take care,

Michel

[neptune]

To those constructors having problems with rotor magnets flying off the disc. Why not add  some form of raised rim to the disc to back up the magnets. This could be thin plywood or plastic.

[robbie47]

@Michel:
How do you take such pictures?

[jester]

I ripped a magnet out of an old hard drive for a stator. It's curved and has a north south.at the ends. My best pattern so far seems to be.

a 3 - 2 then a 3 - 2 - 1 and then it repeats

S stands for a space and R for rotor.

R S R S R S S R S R S S R S S S R S R S R S S R S R S S S  pattern repeats


I mentions it cause there is a lot of odd numbers. Mylow had a lot of 3 rotors sets and 7 rotor sets on his wheels and closed off with an even number don't know if it means much. one last thing the hard drive magnet is a bit strange. by holding it and just changing the angle slightly there were a couple of times the wheel wanted to try and rotate in the other direction.(not flipping north south but by just changing the angle) Stator position and angles seemed to be important for me in the way it exited and enter the gate. Some form of adjustable stand for your stator might be worth the effort.

Someone else might need to confirm this my wheel is slightly warped. What seem to work best in working out my pattern was starting the wheel in the middle or a set or 2 before the middle in what ever rotors I had around the edge. It like the ends balance each other  and I could see a bit more clearly the effect of the pattern I chose. When I started it at the ends it looked like the pattern was a dud as I was building it till it started to get more than halfway around the disc. building a pattern from starting it at the ends all the time seemed to cause the wheel to slow down with the more magnets I added. When I worked from the middle( or a set or 2 before the middle) in finding my patterns adding more magnets did not seem to cause the slow down.

[Michelinho]

Hi everyone,

I do not want to sound negative but all I read and saw from people working on a Permanent Magnet Motor, in this thread or the others, are replication of designs that would not work or would work with limited power or duration. I have looked at rendering from many using sophisticated software like Vizimag, HFSS or other, and they don't seems to cut it basically because the software engineers or the reference works they use to code are WRONG for a PMM. They work for regular brute force motor or alternator which will never attain very low power for a high efficiency output.

WHY? That is what I will try to explain with my crude knowledge of magnets.

First the model of a magnet we use is wrong. A magnet does not have one field at one pole and another at the opposite pole and that is the model used for software as we have it now.

Second, very few persons know the work of Howard Johnson, much less understand it and no one applies it. Howard Johnson is "The Master" and understanding and applying the knowledge he gracefully gave us is "The Holy Grail" for PMMs. The other person who independently did conceived and wrote about, although his model is slighty wrong, is Joseph Newman but all he has shown us I have read about in early century books and magazines. But he was on the right way.

Let me summarize what he told us:

1- A magnet is composed of 2 poles, a South and a North pole.
2- Each pole emits 2 vortexes. A "South Pole"* vortex and a "North Pole"* vortex.
3- Each vortex of a common pole have a different strength.
4- The return path of magnetic vortexes in a magnet is situated roughly at the center of the magnet, not at the opposite end.
5- Given the "North" magnetic vortex a value of 100, he found that at the North pole of the magnet, there is a North* magnetic vortex with a value of 100 and a South* magnetic vortex with a value of 80, so we have a effective and shown North predominance.
6- Given the "North" magnetic vortex a value of 100, he found that at the South pole of the magnet, there is a North* magnetic vortex with a value of 100 and a South* magnetic vortex with a value of 120, so we have an effective and shown South predominance.

That is basically what Howard Johnson and another fellow, which I don't recall the name, measured with precision using state of the art instrumentation in I think 1957. Since then, with the blessing of the Academics and Regulatory brains, that knowledge has been buried and mostly forbidden in its use for academic teaching. That was 52 years ago and it is still under a load of denial.


That is all for now as I have to go rest my back.

Read and reread Howard Johnson's book “The Secret World of Magnets” until you understand this then start applying his knowledge to your Permanent Magnet Work.

Part Two will be on how to manipulate those vortexes to your advantage and get a greater chance of succeeding in your build of a Permanent Magnetic Motor. It can also be used to amplify the potential of anything involving magnets.

Take care all,

Michel


* Those vortexes are composed of CW spin particles and CCW spin particles. Which is which is not of much value here, those who want to get deeper in the subject should read “The Secret World of Magnets”.