Work Free Magnetic Switch Project Video

[Butch LaFonte]

You should make a ditch where the magnets are rolling in. Also make a fixed position of the steel bars.
With that much friction, it your very setup, you cannot distinguish between the force needed to fight friction and magnetism. You only assume there will be no force needed to pull the magnets apart. Simulations shows that you have approx 1/6 of the attraction WITH the steel bars compared to WITHOUT the steel bars. So there is force needed to take them apart even without friction.
This force can then be compared to what force is needed to pull the "end bars" loose as you demonstrated in the video.

It is for sure an interesting demonstration, but I don't think you can see the whole picture regarding forces working on the whole system with all that friction.

With all respect:

Vidar

Vidar,
I wonder if the force to pull the magnets apart varies with the size of the air gap? I have about 1/8" on each pole. I wounder if .005" would reduce any pull? Also I really can't detect much pull to separate them. I am building a new test fixture with 2.5 foot long bars and spacers on the magnet poles that are smooth and just touch the bars slightly. I will rig up a force meter and calculate force over distance also.
I am really surprised at the 1/6 figure you came up with because 1/6 of the force to pull them apart in free air would would still be a very strong force. The average strength man has a hard time pulling these magnets apart in free air using all his arms strength. I'm moving them apart with the tip of my little finger?
Let me know what you think. Also if you get a chance look at my post today on drag free generator project. Let me know what you think.
Regards,
Butch LaFonte

[Low-Q]

Vidar if you never believe in something you should not bother with it. The only thing you just "contributed" with is trying to prove butch wrong and make him go hang himself for wasting all this time with magnets. You lack any respect whatsoever unlike your post makes show. Butch is able to just ignore you but the fire in me can't.

It's ironic how we are trying to beat things like friction and lenz law while the biggest break there is for humans is other humans trying to bring them to a stop.

Butch you're doing a great job don't let these pigeon brained individuals break you.

First: I had a suggestion on how Butch could more easy feel the forces involved when friction is reduced. Is that too much for you - or Butch?

Second: I believe it is important to have people with the feets on the ground. I am just explaining how magnets work, how they are related to each other in a system, and by these explanations tell the obvious outcome when you try to extract energy from them - if you do NOT want to release the potential energy stored in magnets, however.
A magnet has been added energy to be magnetized. To release this energy you must loose the very same magnetism that was applied. Loosing magnetism in a magnet isn't what we want in an all permanent magnet motor. So the result of a motor based on permanentmagnets that does not change magnetism considerably over time, will ofcourse not work. Most of us understand this - you included if you digg deep enough in your knowledge and common sense. That simple.
Your fire will not change these facts, and I'm not make any attempt to put that fire out.

I do not care who is following me, but those who does, will not suffer from endless attemps, and emty wallets, but alternative ways to "kill some time". Make a windmill instead. That will probably supply your house for less money than you, me or others has spent in permanentmagnets, and time.

Vidar

[Low-Q]

Vidar,
I wonder if the force to pull the magnets apart varies with the size of the air gap? I have about 1/8" on each pole. I wounder if .005" would reduce any pull? Also I really can't detect much pull to separate them. I am building a new test fixture with 2.5 foot long bars and spacers on the magnet poles that are smooth and just touch the bars slightly. I will rig up a force meter and calculate force over distance also.
I am really surprised at the 1/6 figure you came up with because 1/6 of the force to pull them apart in free air would would still be a very strong force. The average strength man has a hard time pulling these magnets apart in free air using all his arms strength. I'm moving them apart with the tip of my little finger?
Let me know what you think. Also if you get a chance look at my post today on drag free generator project. Let me know what you think.
Regards,
Butch LaFonte

You are right about the airgap. Less airgap provides less needed force to separate the magnets. However, the magnets are not infinitely narrow (The magnetic material have a given extent) , so the difference in having 1/16 or 1/32 inch airgap does not mean twice, or halve the separation force. However, the separation force depends also on steel quality, grade of magnets etc.

The separation force between the round magnets is relatively related to the force needed to separate the "end bars" - not the same, but related relatively. The closer the airgap is, the less force is needed to separate the magnets, but greater force to separate the "end bars" from the other bars. The forces are relatively linked, so to speak. What you loose in force one place, must go somewhere. Within the same system it is natural to believe that this force has moved to the attraction of the end bars, and to the original bars, as more of the magnetic field from the magnets are allowed to travel through the steel instead of the air. As the grade of your magnets does not change during the experiment, the total force within the system is in perfect balance - not the same, but in perfect balance.

I'm not sure this answered your questions in some understandable way, but let me know if I misunderstood your questions totally

I will look into your drag free generator. I'll comment that later.

Vidar.

[mscoffman]

Butch;

Have you tried the following; Wrap some 22gauge hookup wire around
the metal end pieces. You should now be able to generate a voltage+current
pulse as you move the roller magnet back and forth. Since the field flux is
substantial you should be able to wrap a power winding if so desired.

The key question is this: If you place a short circuit across the windings do you
feel it as a delayed force in the roller magnet? If you can't, then perhaps this
is a "drag free" generator. Obviously you can see the implications. Simply
move the roller magnet around with a stepper motor mechanism from an old
computer printer and power the stepper motor from the power windings.
If there is no drag then the stepper will be able to move the roller around
at high speeds.

So, most likely I would suspect that there is roller magnet drag and the device will
behave like a standard generator. If not, then you have it.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[Butch LaFonte]

Butch;

Have you tried the following; Wrap some 22gauge hookup wire around
the metal end pieces. You should now be able to generate a voltage+current
pulse as you move the roller magnet back and forth. Since the field flux is
substantial you should be able to wrap a power winding if so desired.

The key question is this: If you place a short circuit across the windings do you
feel it as a delayed force in the roller magnet? If you can't, then perhaps this
is a "drag free" generator. Obviously you can see the implications. Simply
move the roller magnet around with a stepper motor mechanism from an old
computer printer and power the stepper motor from the power windings.
If there is no drag then the stepper will be able to move the roller around
at high speeds.



So, most likely I would suspect that there is roller magnet drag and the device will
behave like a standard generator. If not, then you have it.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Hi Mark,
I have ordered two 2.5 foot long steel bars to run a new test of this setup. I will try coils on the end bars also. I am working on something very big till the bars come in. As usual I have five designs going at the same time.
Good to hear from you.
Butch