Latest: No back torque generator.

[Yucca]

@GB,

Just realised, your variable hispeed motors will not be induction based they will be brushed PM motors. So they´ll be kicking out real harsh BEMF spikes, which will intefere with instrument measurements, especially reading open circuit voltage which is a nice thing to know. You will be able to quieten them by putting a filter cap across the motor terminals, a good sized ceramic cap of any value would be a good start. Ideally you want a polypropylene cap matched to the coil inductance for resonance at average speed freq.

[Yucca]

Hi GB,

OK, read your latest ideas. My thought at the moment is that increasing disk resistance will not increase developed potential. I am going to do an experiment to verify this soon with spinning resistors making spokes and then another run with solid copper spokes.

Do you have a recent picture of your brushless idea to aid discussion. I looked in your post list but the list doesn't show pics, It must be in this thread somewhere because I'm sure I saw a pic you made once?

At the moment I'm thinking that there must be part of the circuit outside of the rotating frame for a current to manifest, making brushless impossible. But I am willing to try a barebones simple experiment to check for any possibility. Can you think of a simple way to test the basics of the idea?

[gravityblock]

@Yucca:

I wish I could find the words or be able to draw, so you could understand the concept more.

Test and see what the polarities are on each side of the disk.  The polarities should be different on your meter, but they are actually the same because each side is counter rotating to each other in regards to the magnetic field (would be the same as connecting them in series).

If the axis on the right side is negative and the rim on the right side is positive, then the rim on the left side will be negative and the axis on the left side will be positive.  This would be similar to connecting the rim in series such as BWS is trying to do.  I think the circumference of the rim is already connected in series with a conductive magnet.  This should only take a few minutes to test if you have a conductive magnet.

If I am wrong, then there should be a cancellation between the rims instead of on one side of the magnet at the center.  This is why BWS is trying to hookup the rim in series.  What he fails to realize, is that each side of the disks are counter rotating to each other and not canceling at the rim, but is canceling at the center on one side of the magnet (the magnets direction of rotation will determine which side).

If I am right, then the brushless system will connect the current in series at the axis instead of the rim in order to avoid the cancellation and boost the voltage as long as there is a return path to the other side of the magnet in order to form a closed circuit. 

BWS and I are trying to do the same thing.  BWS was wrong with the N/N or S/S configuration in his 1995 patent prototype due to him failing to realize that each side of the disks are counter rotating to each other in regards to the magnetic field, which caused him to carry this same mistake over to his current design in connecting the rim in series.

On the inner side of the swivel bearings will be the rotating frame, and the outer side of the swivel bearing will be the stationary frame which the load is connected between the two bearings.

This is the question that needs to be answered.  Is the cancellation occuring at the rim or at the center of one side of the magnet?

This will determine if we connect the rim in series or the axis.  The axis can easly be connected in series with a brushless system using swivel bearings and would be equal to an infinite number of brushes connected in series along the circumference of the disk.

A 2 minute experiment will tell who is right and which method can be used.

I appreciate you or anyone else who takes the time to perform this simple experiment.

I just realized when I was writing this post that BWS and my concept is the same thing.  He thinks the rim needs to be connected in series due to the cancelation happening there, and I think the axis or the center of one side of the magnet needs to be connected in series due to the cancelation happening there. 

My method just happens to be much easier to implement and much more effienct than his method.  His method doesn't allow for a brushless system while my method does.

He may be right......but my thought experiments say he is wrong.

After performing this simple test, if BWS happens to be correct, then I will support and back him 100%.

Thanks,

GB

[Yucca]

@Yucca:

I wish I could find the words or be able to draw, so you could understand the concept more.

Test and see what the polarities are on each side of the disk.  The polarities should be different on your meter, but they are actually the same because each side is counter rotating to each other in regards to the magnetic field (would be the same as connecting them in series).

If the axis on the right side is negative and the rim on the right side is positive, then the rim on the left side will be negative and the axis on the left side will be positive.  This would be similar to connecting the rim in series such as BWS is trying to do.  I think the circumference of the rim is already connected in series with a conductive magnet.  This should only take a few minutes to test if you have a conductive magnet.

If I am wrong, then there should be a cancellation between the rims instead of on one side of the magnet at the center.  This is why BWS is trying to hookup the rim in series.  What he fails to realize, is that each side of the disks are counter rotating to each other and not canceling at the rim, but is canceling at the center on one side of the magnet (the magnets direction of rotation will determine which side).

If I am right, then the brushless system will connect the current in series at the axis instead of the rim in order to avoid the cancellation and boost the voltage as long as there is a return path to the other side of the magnet in order to form a closed circuit. 

BWS and I are trying to do the same thing.  BWS was wrong with the N/N or S/S configuration in his 1995 patent prototype due to him failing to realize that each side of the disks are counter rotating to each other in regards to the magnetic field, which caused him to carry this same mistake over to his current design in connecting the rim in series.

On the inner side of the swivel bearings will be the rotating frame, and the outer side of the swivel bearing will be the stationary frame which the load is connected between the two bearings.

This is the question that needs to be answered.  Is the cancellation occuring at the rim or at the center of one side of the magnet?

This will determine if we connect the rim in series or the axis.  The axis can easly be connected in series with a brushless system using swivel bearings and would be equal to an infinite number of brushes connected in series along the circumference of the disk.

A 2 minute experiment will tell who is right and which method can be used.

I appreciate you or anyone else who takes the time to perform this simple experiment.

I just realized when I was writing this post that BWS and my concept is the same thing.  He thinks the rim needs to be connected in series due to the cancelation happening there, and I think the axis or the center of one side of the magnet needs to be connected in series due to the cancelation happening there. 

My method just happens to be much easier to implement and much more effienct than his method.  His method doesn't allow for a brushless system while my method does.

He may be right......but my thought experiments say he is wrong.

After performing this simple test, if BWS happens to be correct, then I will support and back him 100%.

Thanks,

GB

OK GB,

I think I understand the above but it takes some interpretation and I might not perform the experiment correctly. Below is the experimental method I plan to use. Please correct if it´s wrong:

construction:
take 1 neo disc, axially polarised.
coat both sides of the disc (N & S) in insulator (selotape).
apply self adhesive alu foil disks ontop of these insulators.

test1:
make sure the foil disks are electrically disconected from eachother. spin the disk and check voltage and polarity developed over each foil disc.

test2:
electrically connect the discs together at the axle and measure the voltage and polarity developed across 2 brushes, one on each seperate foil disc rim.

test3:
join the discs together at the rims and measure the voltage and polarity developed across 2 brushes, one on each seperate foil disc axle. (I will place the brushes not actually on the axle but close to the axle on the foil, the axle will be electrically disconected from both foil discs.)

P.S.
the concept is not strictly brushless, even if only axle takeoff is required then slip rings or some conductive bearing will be needed, that´s a form of brush. But of course axle takeoff would be a hell of a lot simpler to implement than brushes around the rim! plus if axle takeoff works then many units can be rotated together with just two power takeoff points for higher voltage.

Yucca.

[Yucca]

@gb,

after rereading i just realised, the above test should probably be performed with two back to back disc mags, like poles facing, with enough steel washers (same diam as mags) inbetween such that both mags just about stick to the steel. correct?