Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications

[minde4000]

Cogging is hardly a loss in a system.
Ok, it costs energy to get out of the gripping field of a magnet. But you get that spend energy back by the next cycle where the magnet attracts. Like cycling up a hill, it cost you much effort, but once over the top you enjoy an effortless ride downhill. So net losses due to cogging are minimal.

Today I have finished yet another coil: I core awg 27 bifilar 70 ohms (22 layers). Did few runs but need to do much more. This coil begins to produce heat if left open circuit high rpm (wtf). Cogging torque is the main loss in my system and kind of significant (as you can see below). Shorted or loaded coil is trying to compensate but could never reach free spin efficiency altho I still dont have real time adjustable gap system for fine tunning. Thane said he did reach this and even beyond with power production while maintaining free spin power consumption so I still have way to go. Here are few numbers to compare:

   100 VAC                    RPM      Amps
Free spin rotor           :  3450      3.66
Coil added open circuit:  3343      4.95
Coil short                  :  3424      3.78
16W output               :  3411      4.00

EDIT: I will post few oscilloscope shots of it tommorow to see how the waves look like in loaded coil


Regards Minde

[i_ron]

Cogging is hardly a loss in a system.
Ok, it costs energy to get out of the gripping field of a magnet. But you get that spend energy back by the next cycle where the magnet attracts. Like cycling up a hill, it cost you much effort, but once over the top you enjoy an effortless ride downhill. So net losses due to cogging are minimal.

Steven, this is a great simplification that may have some small merit factor.
But it ignores the main core losses of eddy and hysteresis losses. There is no avoiding these losses by staggering the core magnet ratio.

Each core has an associated loss and these losses are directly additive.
The only core that has no core loss is an air cored coil.

Baroutologos, Minde, and myself have all published our numbers that show core loss is present.

Regards,

Ron

[baroutologos]

Hello,
It is said, repetition is the mother of knowledge!

In this thread it has been mentioned more than 10 times so far by me and others that odd-even magnet/coil configuration lessens considerably cogging torque. (i am familiar with Muller's work)
In order to make it zero you almost need an considerable number of odd/even elements. By the way some residual cogging torque will remain. Pretty simple, nothing more to add about it.

@wattup,
i totally comprehend what you say. For the time being i am not concerned about cogging torque. it costs me some 7 watts @ 1500 rpm and less in higher rpm (including eddie/hysteresis losses) and that's it.

I stay with the improvised U core BECAUSE it closes down the magnetic flux path. This increases performance of the coils (i will present some numbers about that) or to put in another words, Power out.

Plans
.....................
If you have followed me, i plan sometime at implementing up to 5 x U cores, arranged at even/odd configuration. Effectively each core U core (composed of two coils) will count as one, in cogging torque terms, so by having 5 of them odd/even arranged, per average the cogging losses will come down. (or even in comparison to single U core as it is now)

Current activities
......................
I am focused at the moment at making coils that way so as to maintain same turns and producing lower volt and much amperage.
My next step is to wound the coils with 10 x strands (ohh, yes) of 29 awg at some 400 turns (300 gr of wire or 120 ohms). I am of Bedini school, so type of wire is mundanly used so its something relatively easy to make (although too much labour!)
Each coil will give a 1.2 ohm combined resistance and lowest possible impedance.

If it works and does not Lenzes... (new term i.e. doe not create drag at short) then we would know if impedance is the principle factor for sure.

So far my indications suggest that impedance and voltage are NOT the accelarating factor contrary to Mr T's beliefs. Since i achieve same accelaration with parallel or series windings in my current setup.

We see

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: Researcher, Aether22 almost a year ago had reached same conclusions. See..
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.msg104122#msg104122

[broli]

To eliminate low rpm cogging things can become tricky. The way I would do it is add another set of magnets all facing the same direction on the other side of the rotor and have a single stator magnet which is in repulsion with them. You then adjust the distance betweem them to cancel out the attraction-attraction on the other side on the core. This can be tricky to tune and even end up costly though.

[CRANKYpants]

Shorted or loaded coil is trying to compensate but could never reach free spin efficiency altho I still dont have real time adjustable gap system for fine tunning. Thane said he did reach this and even beyond with power production while maintaining free spin power consumption so I still have way to go. Here are few numbers to compare:

Regards Minde

IF YOU WANT TO RE-CREATE THAT TEST YOU WILL NEED A 4 POLE MOTOR NOT A 2 POLE MOTOR AS YOU ARE CURRENTLY USING. THE 4 POLE MOTOR HAS A MORE EVEN TORQUE DISTRIBUTION SO COGGING HAS LESS EFFECT.

THAT BEING SAID - YOU SHOULD BE AWARE THAT ALL THIS TALK ABOUT CORE LOSSES - COGGING ETC. IS SIMPLY A SMOKE SCREEN PUT UP BY DISINGENUOUS (SLEAZY) PEOPLE (WHO ALREADY KNOW BETTER - BUT PRETEND NOT TO) - AND UNLESS ONE IS CREATING AN AIR CORE GENERATOR - IT HAS NO RELEVANCE AND IS ONLY DESIGNED TO MAKE YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE WASTE TIME AND EFFORT.

COGGING TORQUE CAN BE REDUCED OR ELIMINATED BY PROPER COIL SPACING.
EDDY CURRENT LOSSES - HYSTERESIS LOSSES BY BETTER AND LARGER CORES
(CURRENTLY WE ARE USING M6 MATERIAL - WHICH IS RELATIVELY CHEAP - M1 OR M0 IS IDEAL).

LEAVE THE GENERATOR COMPONENT SELECTION AND DESIGN SPECS TO THE PEOPLE WHO ALREADY KNOW HOW TO DO THAT - BUT DON'T YET KNOW HOW TO CREATE A COIL THAT PRODUCES POWER AND ACCELERATES UNDER LOAD.

CAN YOU MAKE A CONVENTIONAL COIL (18 GAUGE WIRE) ON ANOTHER BOBBIN - SAME CORE AIR GAP ETC. AND SEE WHAT RESULTS YOU GET @ 100 V TO YOUR MOTOR?

MY BET IS - (IF YOU TRY TO EXTRACT 16 WATTS IN CONVENTIONAL MODE) - THE ROTOR WILL VIRTUALLY BE STOPPED YOUR GENERATOR OUTPUT WILL BE NEAR ZERO AND YOUR MOTOR POWER CONSUMPTION WILL BE MAXIMUM.

T

BTW
THANKS FOR THE COIL WINDING 101 LESSONS YOU ARE GIVING EVERYONE HERE! - V-NICE WORK