The self-filling siphon, and why can't it be done?

[Nabo00o]

@craZy
If it works like I think it is then you don't need any longer hose, you just need to portion more of the hose on the drain side than one the intake side, if this is what does it then it should work like that, although I really didn't believe that siphon could work like that....

Also here is kinda the ultimate way I figured this pump could work, with many small tubes fitted together you can increase the suction power without risking air-bubbles to enter: 

[infringer]

Cheap stab at testing your theory ...

And I think broli explained away why this may not work with the best explanation the molecular bond because there will be a firing order of sorts there will be a point if the tube is pushing more then it is pulling there will be a back fire if you will to maintain the equal state that is required for a siphon.

But a cheap way is a tube a bucket of water some tube and a t splitter with some hose clamps.

Very cheap and easy...

But my question is this why cant you continue to siphon something (regular one tube) out of a tank and put it back into a tank while dripping on to a turbine unless the movement on the surface of the water would cause a problem less the fact that evaporation would eventually occur I can not think of any reasons why such a thing would not work...

Cheap test computer fan and a tube and a bucket of water with some rubber gloves for safety.

At worst case this may win the overunity prize depending upon the definition of sustained ... More power out then in for a period of x time the time was never discussed after all I thought over unity by definition means more power out then in and a sustained over unity would be perpetual motion so is it the perpetual motion prize or the over unity prize?

I would love for heartiberlin to clarify this one for us.


Thanks for sharing guys good post.

Naboo the more outlets you make the harder it would be to keep the molecular bond. I think it is safe to say that broli has brought to us a very valid scientific point but by all means please do test.
-infringer-

[Nabo00o]

Thanks infringer but I do actually disagree. It might be that the molecular bond is stronger at smaller dimensions, but as I have understood it by reading on siphons it is definitely suction by pressure which causes the flow to start and maintains it.

Okey as we commonly know siphons, if you have a U shaped pipe pointing down, fill it with liquid (water) and open up both ends nothing will happen. This is because the forces of gravity on both sides is just as strong. However if one side is longer than the other and you open both sides it will flow down the longest one. This is because gravity has more mass to push on that side than on the other side, thus causing the balance to brake and begins to accelerate water in that direction.
As I said earlier, to create perfect vacuum requires very large amounts of energy, but that is what would have happened if water only flowed down on one side without the other side moving, or if both sides flowed in opposite directions.
So because of that a low pressure will instead force the remaining water in the tube to follow the first water. Also if you make the U pipe too thick air will enter and cause the water to fall out on both sides.

The standard and limiting theory (if it is true) is that only height decides how much flow there will be, it is very much like incorporating the already existing hydrostatic law to siphons. In hydrostatics shape will not change anything, even if it seems counterintuitive. The question is if that is truly the way a siphon works, or if it maybe can work in a "hydrodynamic" manner as well. But at any rate I know the experiments will ultimately teach us what that works and what that doesn't. I hope this works though

Naboo

Edit: I'm not interested in the overunity price, he can save that one for someone else 
Neither perpetual motion or even overunity was required to win the price I think, only that you had a unit which could produce energy with the following specifications. For example if the fuel was water it shouldn't more than 10 liter a day or something like that.

Also just to make my view about the matter clear: Perpetual motion IS impossible, over unit means about the same thing and is therefore also impossible. What isn't impossible however is to find a source of energy which can power everything we need, in a cheap and abundant way, this is called 'free energy'.
It might be that this free energy will not be found with its basis in the physical world, but instead in the time dimension, although that is a completely different subject 

[Cloxxki]

Perhaps we should find a way to let the water do more than just lose gravity potential energy on its downflow. It forming a good vector might somehow be used to obtain a positive pressure difference, to keep the flow going.

I have posted before about the Messaih machien, which is like a point-down traffic cone spinning to pump up water. It's supposed to be way efficient at down this, perhaps because the water doesn't have leverage against the cone. Had it not spun and had a a bit of friction, the water would just fall down. Once over the top though, the water might be used in an efficient turbine to create more energy than is needed to run the pumping cone. Or just stay high, to get the darn water to the desert.

If the downward tubes would be spirals with tapered diamter, suction could be generated. But would this stop the downflow, or speed up the up flow?

Another idea to play with is a fine Archemes' screw. Large diameter. Screw material and color are vastly different from point to point, to get the Sun to help a hand.

Yet another idea. A bladder that is light or heat sensitive, and respond with expansion or schrinkage. With a closed water system, this created pressure. Let out on top at max schrinkage, let in at bottom at max expansion. The pump might run a "light switch", being some sort of sun block. If the inside of the bladder is insulated, the outside could be the active skin. Easily manipulated by altering cold and warm water current over it. No idea if such bladder could be powerful enough to be useful to gain real height in real volumes.

[Nabo00o]

The idea was that no external power source except for the fluid interaction would be necessary, the point is that the imbalance of mass causes a force to drag it in the path where the gravitation is strongest, just like in a gravitation wheel.

Almost all of your suggestions but maybe one requires some other source of energy. The exception is the cone pump which I think utilizes the centrifugal force of water to push it further up. This is not a direct way of pushing the water like the Archimedes screw for instance.

Naboo